Episode 60 – Bobby Davis

I knew pretty, I knew pretty quickly my mind was, uh, was different, was working different. And, um, it took a lot to actually have confidence in the fact that my brain was different. Funny enough, before this, this session here, I, uh, I listed out all the business failures, all the way back- Okay. to 16. And, and instead of it being a, a sour memory or something that I regret, it’s like, “Man, no, this is, this was the fuel the entire way. “Mm-hmm. It’s those feelings of, like, “Oh, man, I, I did it again. I screwed up again. I did it again. “Mm-hmm. The same way I treat a sales environment, uh, or a business environment, is we don’t actually have to all love each other that much. It would be nice if we did. Yeah. Makes work more enjoyable. Mm-hmm. Um, being effective is the point- Mm-hmm. of that team. You only have room to hold energy in 2 ways. It’s either- Mm-hmm. good or it’s bad energy. Yeah. I try my best to release any bad energy. Even as it’s coming on, I just, I acknowledge it, and I, I put it to the side and say, “No. “Dude, I’m gonna tell you right now, just getting out of high school was a miracle. I’m pretty sure, if my mom’s watching this, she might admit, she might not, but I think she graduated me, ’cause she worked for the school corporation. She was at the computer. Yeah. I don’t know what happened. I probably shouldn’t have graduated. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to The Blueprint. Today, I’ve got Bobby Davis, serial entrepreneur and, uh, failure navigator. Stick with us and let’s see what all he’s, uh, kicked into. So, do me a favor though, if you guys can, uh, hit the subscribe button on the bottom, that would really help us out. We’re trying to get more of these stories out, uh, ones that you guys can kinda connect with, and, and see if the stories relate to you. Um, so, tuned. Bobby, how are you? Brandon. Fantastic. Appreciate you coming on, man. I really, really, uh, uh, I’m excited to hear your story. It’s a little different from the guys that we’ve had on before. So, um, you know, wanna tell a little bit more about, like, from the beginning, all the way, you know, to where you’ve gotten now. But, uh, I need to hear a little bit more about where baby Bobby came from. Man, well, uh, I am honored to be on here, man. And I love thinking that I might be a little part of history here in the making- Yeah. over at, uh, over at this studio, man. Awesome. Good stuff going on here. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. So yeah, I, uh, I grew up in, uh, a little area, northwest Indiana, east Chicago area. Okay. It’s Bears territory. Yeah. Um, and, uh, it was an area where it was either you go to the mill- Mm-hmm. and work in the union- Yeah, yeah. or you’re just kind of a mediocre, you know, you’re just gonna kinda do something blah with your life. Mm-hmm. Like, the mill was peak. Yeah. And, um, I knew pretty, I knew pretty quickly my mind was, uh, was different, was working different. And, um, and, and it took a lot, it took a lot to actually have confidence in the fact- Mm-hmm. that my brain was different. But, um, I really think the highlight of my, of my childhood was some of the, uh, some of the obstacles put in place. Mm-hmm. And, um, I just, I’ve learned that if you, if you just take an extra step after you get beat down, if you just take one more step, or look at things different, or ask the question, “What is this teaching me? “Mm-hmm. You can learn, you can come away with- Yeah. um, you can, you can come away with a lot of good lessons. And from- So from east Chicago, um, all the way out to Frisco, Texas, um, and now out here in, in, in- Yeah. the middle of nowhere- Yeah. um, there’s been 100 lessons- Yeah. that, um, that have built me into who I am today. Yeah. Well, let me ask you this. Uh, big family, little family? Big. Big family. Who are you? So, um, my, I had a, a, my mom was a single mom, um, of 6. I was the 6th. Okay. So I, I like to- A fighter. Oh, man, I love to, I love to think that I got, uh, a combination of all the, the lessons passed down from the brothers and sisters- Mm-hmm. but also a combination of, um, my mom just being straight exhausted- Yeah. so she couldn’t control me as much. I was out kind of getting in trouble and- Yeah. and doing those things. And, um, so a little bit of a rebel blood from the beginning, you know? Mm-hmm. And a rule breaker. Mm-hmm. And, um, it’s funny, we’ll probably tie into that point later- Mm-hmm. uh, of how that plays into my life now. But, um, yeah, big family. Mm-hmm. Um, quite a, quite a struggle. Mm-hmm. Um, but overall, really great childhood. UmWhen you, when you think about, uh, being the youngest of 6, there’s 2 ways this can go. I’m the baby, and I got coddled, and everyone in my family thinks I got it easiest, or I caught the most beat downs. Straight up, I think I, I think I had a little bit of both. Yeah. You know, me and my ma still have an inside joke that I’m, I’m the favorite, you know. Um, but I think that actually caused the beat down. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Uh, you know, if I, uh, if I stepped out of line with my brothers, my older brothers were, I mean- Mm-hmm. my oldest brother’s, you know, 6’2″, 200-plus pounds- Mm-hmm. uh, martial artist. Mm-hmm. I think he was a black belt or something. Yeah. But he, he, he knew how to hurt you if he wanted to. He needs to relax a little bit, doesn’t he? Yeah, well, yeah, well-I would get the swirly, number w- first would be the swirly- Uh-huh. you know, hanging, dangling me over a toilet- Yeah. scaring me to death. Yeah. Um, and then the next brother down, he was, you know, there’s always something to pick on with that youngest kid. Yeah. But I, I wouldn’t have had it any other way. Mm-hmm. Um, I think it’s, I think it’s helped me along the way. Mm-hmm. You know? You know, the good thing about, you know, getting picked on as a, as a little one too, is like, look, I mean, they, they toughen you up a little bit, but also, if you walk out in the real world, and somebody does come to pick on you, you got this arm- built-in army that, you know they’re behind you, no matter what. That’s our guy to pick on, not yours. Man, my oldest brother, uh, he’s, he’sI think he’s 50 now or 51. Um, I mean, there’s so many stories about him and some of the fights he’s gotten into. This guy, you know, 6’2”, the last fight he got, and he got hit in the face with a hammer- Mm-hmm. and still ended up getting up and scaring these guys. They scattered when he got up. That’s the kinda guy he was. Mm-hmm. But when it came down to it, if I’m wrong or if I’m right, he’s, he’s walking down the side of the, the road, looking- Yeah. for me and looking to help me. Oh, 100%. If I’m in trouble, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I did, I got that sense of brotherhood, that tribe early on. Mm-hmm. Which is a blessing. I mean, it’s a blessing. Well, that’s what family’s about, right? Like, uh, thick or thin, you know, you got them to back you up no matter what. You know, at the end of the day, they’re supposed to be the ones picking you up and, “I got your back. At the end of the day, I’m, uh, I know I’m gonna pick on you or life might be hard, but when it comes hell or high water, guess who’s gonna be there? “Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. And my sisters were nothing to- Yeah. nothing to mess with either. Yeah. My, uh, my second oldest, uh, I mean, uh, the, the sister that’s closest to age and me, I remember her just throwing, throwing haymakers on me in the kitchen one day for-for who knows what. Yeah. But yeah, that’s, um, probably the best start I could have asked for, is really just having that, having that fam. No matter the bad things- Mm-hmm. there was things that, that you could be thankful for. Mm-hmm. Every single day,Do you have any, uh, hobbies and, and, uh, growing up in school and things like that? Yeah, I, I got a taste for, um, economy- Okay. and business at a young age. Uh, I can remember all the way back to 16, um, building custom computers, back when it was pretty hard to assemble ’em and put ’em together. Mm-hmm. And, um, me and a buddy of mine, who I just saw this past weekend, we printed out flyers and dropping flyers all over the cars, bothering everybody. And we got a couple computer builds and got- Yeah. got a taste of what that was like. Yeah. And, um, ended up moving on from it. But thatYeah, as early as about 16 years old, I remember kinda just thinking, “Man, there’s a, there’s a way to hustle this. I don’t wanna work here at this pizza place. “Right. Oh, that’s where you were at? Yeah. My first job was a pizza parlor- Okay. uh, called Aurelio’s. Yeah. In East Chica- Well, the actual town is Lowell- Mm-hmm. if you wanna pinpoint it, but it’s, like, East Chicago area. Mm-hmm. Indiana. Yeah. So kind of an armpit if you ask me, butYeah. Um, but I knew immediately I didn’t, I didn’t wanna work for anybody. Mm-hmm. And, uh, funny enough, before this, this session here, I, uh, I listed out all the business failures, all the way back- Okay. to 16. And, and instead of it being a, a sour memory or something that I regret, it’s like, man, no, this is, this was the fuel the entire way. Mm-hmm. It’s those feelings of like, “Ah, man, I d- I did it again. I screwed up again. I did it again. “Mm-hmm. But one foot in front of the other, man. And I’m not saying I’m done now. Mm-hmm. I’m, I’m pretty muchI’ll probably gonna fail tomorrow at something. But there is a way to look at things that will propel you, and it will build this momentum that one day you won’t, you won’t even know where it’s coming from. Mm-hmm. It’s like you can run around. You can have this energy to run circles around people. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it doesn’t feel like you’re trying. But that’s what it does when you stir up all these failures and you look at ’em in this way that’s, “This is, this is building me. “Mm-hmm. “I’m learning from this. This is not, this is not the end of me. “And I think when you look at how school kinda sets us up- Mm-hmm. society in general sets us up- Yeah. it’s, “Don’t make mistakes. “Yeah. It’s, “Raise your hand before you speak. “Mm-hmm. It’s, “You gotta ask to go to the bathroom. “Mm-hmm. “Here’s your schedule. Follow this schedule. “So it’s all these things that just turn us into rule-followers. Mm-hmm. And business, I, I’ve figured out, is the exact opposite. Mm-hmm. Really. Kinda gotta break the mold on everything and, you know, be the disruptor in, in the situation. You can’t be scared that somebody’s gonna look at you, “Oh, he, oh, he or she’s different. “Yeah. Can’t be scared of that. Yeah. And that is scary. Yeah. Personally, I, the, the item I brought today represents that. Mm-hmm. I can’t wait to explain that to you. Well, tell me about it. What do you got? So, so this is a watch that when I was growing up, I think 17 is when I got the job. I was, I was selling cell phones at the mall, you know- Yes. when it was annoying, uh, kids in the phone booths. Um, and, uh, I started doing pretty good at it, getting traction at it, m- making some sales. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I bought this watch as like a, almost like a trophy for myself, like, “Hey, this is, I’m rewarding myself,” whatever. Mm-hmm. Well, this watch right here, um, it reminds me now, the reason I haven’t gotten rid of it now or given it away is, it reminds me now where my brain was when I was 18, 17, 18 years old. Mm-hmm. And that is, I wanted to flash, I wanted to look, I wanted to seem like I was doing something. Hm. Like I was big, like I was bigger than I actually was. And that watch right there, when I was sev- I think I was 17, was $1,200. Mm-hmm. I financed that watch. Like, I signed paperwork to buy that watch and make monthly payments on that watch right there. Yeah. And so, it c- it reminds me that as I, as I grew, I started caring less about what it looks like, or talking about it, or, or preaching something, and more about, like, “What is it I’m actually doing? “Mm-hmm. So one side is character and one side is, to me, is ego, right? Mm-hmm. That’s building my ego, because people can s- Yeah. Well, maybe not even that anymore, but- Right. Yeah. you know, like a Rolex or something, it’s like, “Hey, I’m wearing this-” Mm-hmm. ” because this is my status. “Mm-hmm. “I can afford this. “Mm-hmm. So it, it goes from that over to, “Hey, I’m building this, and I know it. “Mm-hmm. “I don’t, doesn’t matter if anybody else knows it now. “Yeah. “I know what I’m doing,” and there’s a, a confidence that’s projected off of that, rather than, to me, that’s moreAnd there’s nothing wrong with getting a watch, right? But- Yeah. that’s, to me, that was more of an arrogant move, or something that- Yeah. would flex my ego. Mm-hmm. And I’ve made a couple more mistakes along the way- Yeah. like this. But this is the stark reminder to me that I’m not here to show anybody anything anymore. Yeah. I’m here to do one thing for me, is to build my platform, is to build my life so that I can en- enrich others- Mm-hmm. um, namely my kids- Mm-hmm. my family, and my circle. Yeah. Um, and teach them that you don’t have to care about what people think. Mm-hmm. These people don’t even know you. Yeah. You pass by them in the streets, and they don’t know you. They likely don’t even like you, or- Yeah. or want to get to know you, and you’re buying that- Mm-hmm. to send a signal to them- Yeah. like, “Hey, like me. “You know, the crazy thing is, is that, um, I see both of those directions when I, when, when you say this. ‘Cause, look, I remember when I gotI was in college, I had just graduated college, and it was one of my first jobs, and we would go, um, we’d go down the street to, to the, to have lunch or whatever at the Charcoal Broiler, or whatever, Char-Broiler, you know, have a steak at lunch, 5 bucks, you know. But I remember this one guy that would walk with me, would stop every day at this jewelry store, and he would point that exact watch out. And he was like, “Dude, I want that Movado so bad. “Like, “I want that so bad. “And he kept talking to me and talking to me, and I was like, “Just get it. Like, figure it out. “And he’s like, “Can’t,He’s like, “But I want that, right? “And for you to say, “I financed this thing,” you know? Like, “I didn’t overspend when I didn’t have it. I planned this out to make sure that I could have the thing of my dream,” that’s a, that’s a little bit different perspective too, that you need to keep in mind too, when you go to be like, “Hey, man, I was trying to flex, and I’m not about flexing anymore. “Like, no, I get that. I get that. But there’s also something to planning for success. Mm-hmm. You know? Almost, uh, almost a version of, like, smell the roses. Yeah. Like, pat yourself on the back once in a while. Yeah. No, that’s, that’s the biggest problem between the people that I know that, like you, you, like, people that are successful and operating their own business, is that, um, pats on the back are rare. Yeah. Like, you go through war by yourself. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, um, sometimes it’s that pat on the back that is all that you need- Mm-hmm. from yourself. Yeah. Um, and so I, I see what you mean. I see what you mean by that. Or, or even just caught, like, a deep breath, you know? How many times have you laid in bed and you’ve stared at the ceiling, and you don’t know how tomorrow’s gonna work? Where you’re like, you look at the clock, and you look at the dollars, and you look at the days, and you go, what are we gonna do? How we gonna get there? I don’t know how I’m gonna bridge the gap. “And then, when you take a breath, that breath is so much better because you’ve made it over that hurdle. I’m telling you, there’s been 2 or 3 times where I’ve looked at it and gone, “Uh, babe, you know, I don’t know. We’ll see. I think we got it. Maybe we do, maybe we don’t,” you know? But then, when you do get across the other side, and you do take a breath for a minute, that thing is, is worth so much more because it is just a pause of like, “At this point, I’m not in war and I’m not in turmoil. “So it’s okay for whatever it is, right? But I think planning for success is, is literally that. The same thing you work hard for every day is like, “Man, I went out and did this. I did my job. I got these things done. “And then, here it is, a little bit of a time, you know, instead of saying, doing things that are frivolous that are gonna cause you to sink- Right. you invested. Right. You know? That’s, that’s the exact, that’s the exact takeaway for that for me, is that, now I know that I can train myself to focus on the things that are gonna make me effective. Mm-hmm. Now, I’m not saying I won’t have that Ferrari in the garage one of these days when it, when, when it makes sense. I might. Mm-hmm. Um, and that could be one of the, you know, the, that’s the most expensive watch I could buy, really. But-Like you’re saying, planning for that, um, and really I, I think it’s, I think it’s, I think it’s okay- Mm-hmm. if it’s not coming from that desperate place of, “Hey. Look at me-” Mm-hmm. ” and see what I’m doing. “Yeah. You know? You’re not outstretching your means to try to look something you’re not. Right. You’re planning with the success that you have made over time. I’ve always been this type of person too. Yeah. I’ve always been the type of guy to kinda, kinda snarl at somebody who puts an exhaust system on a V6 Mustang. Mm-hmm. It’s like, “Why’d you do that? “Yeah. You’re trying toAnd again, it’s probably none of my business, right. But inside- Mm-hmm. that’s my, that’s my thought process. Like, “Why’d you do that? “Just go buy the V8, go buy the 5. 0 or prepare. Do, do what you gotta do. Mm-hmm. But you don’t have to be this, this thing that you’re trying- Yeah. You know what I mean? So when people make, umI get nosy with people who, uh, who mak- try to make things into something that they’re not. Right. And it’s ’cause I’mUh, really, it’s a self-reflection. Mm-hmm. I wanna make sure that I’m calibrated and I’m not doing that same thing in some- Yeah. one way or the other in my life. Yeah. It’s a huge distraction to care about what people think. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah. You know? The, the 812 Ferrari will be in the garage one day, sure. For sure. And me and my family are gonna have a lot of fun about that. Yeah. I’m sure there’ll be p- y- you know, people will get a big kick out of that. Mm-hmm. Talk to a lot of people that’ll wanna talk about it- Mm-hmm. it and look at it. But it won’t be from the aspect of, like, puffing my chest at people. Yeah. If I’m speeding in that thing, it’ll be in a tunnel in Mexico somewhere. Yeah. You know? It won’t beat a, you know, it wouldn’t beat somebody, butYeah. Um, that’s what that, that’s what that- Yeah. represents to me is that, that early journey. Mm-hmm. Um, very shallow, um, I wouldn’t sayIt’s not confidence. I had a very shallow, whatever replaces confidence, maybe it’s that ego, that self- Mm-hmm. protective ego or arrogance that you have to put on sometimes. Like, w- the way I was brought up, I didn’tI’m not sure I had that person hitting me on the back saying, “Dude, good job. “Mm-hmm. Like, uh, “Hey. Hey, you’re messing up there. “”You’re messing up. Do this or try this or that. “Um, that part of my life very much kind of falls empty- Yeah. in terms of, like, my memory. I don’t really remember whole lot of, um, encouragement in that area. Mm-hmm. So that ki- that arrogance kinda grew there rather than, like, a real- Mm-hmm. earnest, like, confidence. And so that, to me, was, that to me was the representation of that shallow person. Mm-hmm. And it may be different for, uh, oth- other people, but that right there tells me, it keeps me calibrated in terms of, all right, I’m never gonna do that again. It’s never gonna be a arrogance thing. It’s never gonna be ’cause I wanna- Yeah. flash or show. It’s gonna be ’cause I earned it or because I wanted it, really. Yeah. Well, there’s another part too to that, is like, um, the goals you had at a young age and them being what you see now as super small. Or, like I even saw you point at that watch, like it wasn’t even enough to tell the story of how much it meant to you. You needed to talk about a different watch as to what that watch meant. Oh. But that goal, that’s a spot on the ladder, right? That is like somethingAnd sometimes those are worth more. Those are worth more because they were original. They were the beginning struggles. They were the hard hitters, right? And it doesn’t matter, like it could’ve, that could’ve been a Timex with Mickey Mouse on the front of it, for all I care, right? But it was like, you had to get good grades to get it. It was the first time you got straight As. And, and that level of stepping into something and getting that reward for hard work is kinda what I see right there, right? So there’s 2 sides to that story, and I think that’s, uh, that’s pretty special. You shouldn’t dismiss that or not, not give that its credit. Like, that’s hard work kinda shining through, is what that is. Yeah. I had never thought about it like that. Mm-hmm. But it makes it even more special now. I’m, you knowI’ve thought about getting rid of that a couple times, and um, the meaning continues to grow with me, is that that was a, that was a place in my life. Yeah. You know? That is a benchmark. That is a time capsule for you. Yeah. This is a time where you go back and you think, “Well, first off, things may have been a little simpler back then, you know. All I had to do was really work hard enough to get this, and that put the biggest smile on my face. “Yeah. That’s a different price point than that Ferrari. Yeah. . And that, if that’s the level of where your smile’s at at this point, very different, right? Yeah. You know? SoI just had this, uh, I just went to Chicago and visited some family, and I was talking to my mother about this same thing, is that the house I grew up in, the problems that that house had sounded so big- Mm-hmm. and so expensive. Yeah. You know, the foundation is cracked. And it gave me a sense of pride to realize that a lot, just like what you’re saying here, is a lot of those issues, it’s like, “All right. P- put me in, coach. I’ll fix those in a week. “Right . “I’ll have all that fixed, Mom. “Yeah, yeah. You know? Um, and like, maybe a lot of people’s dream is to retire their, their parents or their mo- their mother. Mm-hmm. My mom was a, just a, she’s just a stakeholder in my life, man, just- Mm-hmm. an absolute hero to me. Yeah. And to see her retire, that’s the- Mm-hmm. that’s the, probably less expensive, but that’s the big dream. That’s- Yeah. that’s the thing I wanna go for. But I was talking to her about these issues that we, we, we went through as, you know, growing up and it’s like, “Mom, I can fix that foundation now. “Yeah. And I will, just- Yeah. ask me. Yeah. I will. Yeah. You know? She don’t own that house anymore, so it’s, uh, it’s, it’s irrelevant. But- Yeah. to what you’re, to the point you’re making, it’s still a rung on the ladder that, that captured me at some point- Mm-hmm. when I was a little kid. Yeah. And it’s still with me today. Isn’t it funny how that, when you were so young, meant soThat was, that was your pinnacle. Literally that was your pinnacle. And now you see it so far in your rear view mirror, right? And that’s what growth is. But at the end of the day too, like, that was a stake in the sand to be like, “Dude, I’ve made it. “So no matter how, whatever the pinnacle is, like that’s the definition of your pinnacle. At one part in your life, that is the definition of it. And you need to be like, hope to never forget those moments of like’Cause pinnacles are hard to come by. I always, always tell, um, tell my, my, my kids or, or my friends when it comes to, to sports, um, or anything in life that gives you butterflies. When you’re young, think of a big moment you had and you got kind of nervous in your stomach and you had those butterflies and it’s like, “Whew, you know, I’m kind of nervous, I’m kind of sick,” or whatever, and like most people get really freaked out by those. I always really enjoyed getting butterflies. And, and I, and people always told me I was weird about it, but I just told them, I said, “That means this is very important to me. “And the older I’ve gotten, the less butterflies I’ve had. So I remember every time I catch some butterflies, that I stop, look around. Where am I at? What am I doing? Because those don’t come very often. This may have come tenfold when you were young, ’cause you never experienced it. The older you get, the harder it is to get that pinnacle, the harder it is to catch those butterflies. You know what I mean? I wonder if it’s still possible to get butterflies. I hope so. That’s what we’re doing it for every day. Yeah. I haven’t, I, I haven’t felt them in a while. Yeah. I did jump out of a plane last year. Yeah. I got some butterflies then. Yeah. But what a beautiful thing. Yes. You know, I do wonder how, with my kids, how to create this environment of, uh, what you’re talking about, of exploration, of learning. Um, they’re both, well, both of my daughters are homeschooled now. Mm-hmm. My son graduated high school, so- Mm-hmm. uh, we didn’t have the opportunity. My youngest son will be homeschooled too. Mm-hmm. Um, for this reason. And I tell my youngest daughter, it’s called L- it’s called L-I-V-I-N. Mm-hmm. So if they’re sleeping in- Mm-hmm. and I’m sitting there trying to wake them up, kissing them on the cheek or whatever- Yeah. and there’s a sunrise happening right now- Yeah. that’s kind of the, that’s living. That’s- Yeah. I kind of, I’m trying to get them focused on that. Mm-hmm. These butterflies, these, these special moments- Mm-hmm. because, you know, if like me right now, time seriously flies by when you don’t have those moments. Mm-hmm. Like you’re just in this routine. And granted, my life is pretty good and I, I’d, I’d, I’d hope that a lot of people would like to have my life. Mm-hmm. I’d, I’d love to hope that. But I, like I said, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t have those butterflies at least too often. No. Right. Really, that skydiving is- Yeah. the only time I can remember. Yep. Um, so very interesting point to take away from this. Mm-hmm. Open your eyes. You get some, you catch some butterflies, especially the older you get, that just means you, there’s, you’ve experienced so much in your life, there’s not a lot that’s gonna shake you. When you’re young, everything is a new experience, right? And so the older we get and we start catching these butterflies again, man, just look around. Where are you at? What are you doing? What is important about this, you know? Um, and that’s, and that’s also another really good way to keep yourself from failing under pressure. Right? A lot of people feel that they let the butterflies compound their self, you know, and compound their emotions or feelings to where they, they feel like, “I can’t continue because I’ve worked myself into this thing. “But all that is is a signal for, “Hey, this is cool. Pay attention. “Yeah. That’s just like someone tapping you on the shoulder going, “Hey big boy, here’s one of the 50 things I’m gonna give you in your life. “take notice, you know. And so when you do that, and you just become present in the moment for those, for those situations, that, those butterflies are pretty, pretty special. I’m gonna jump into this. What’s a better pizza, New York or Chicago? I mean, we’re not gonna podcast too long about this. The answer’s clear, everybody. The answer’s clear. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a little place in Chicago you gotta go to next time you’re there. Okay. It’s called Chicago Pizza and Grinders. Okay. And it’s about as big as this studio. Okay. There’s usually a line wrapped around it. The guy that, um, you check in with before you sit down to eat, he may not be there now, but the guy that was there for a long time, uh, remembers your name and your face. Mm. And he remembers the order you were in. Wow, that’s crazy. It always freaked me out. I would always, like, nudge him- Yeah. like, “Hey, I’m still here, I’m still here. “But- Mm-hmm. the guy has it down pat. Mm-hmm. Anyway, it’s right over there by Clark Street where that, uh, the Saint Valentine’s Day Massacre, right in that area. Yeah. Al Capone and all that. Awesome place, man. Mm-hmm. Chicago pizza, number 1 Yeah. all the way. Yeah. What’s the, what’s the other famous place? Like, Giovanni’s, or, uh, I don’t know, whatever. Sure, you have, uh, you have, you have aThere’s actually a place in Frisco. Yeah. What’s that place in Frisco called? Is it Riza- Rizzotti’s? Rizzatti’s? Okay. Yeah. You can go there and get a little, little- So Texas has the best ch- best pizzas is what you’re saying? That’s what I’m hearing right now. Ah. second, second best. And it’s very far- Yeah. in second place. Yeah. No, that shocked me the first time I saw bread, and then everything in the middle, and then bread again, and I was like, “I kinda feel like this is a pie. “And the guy goes- Pizza pie, dude. “Pizza pie, dog. “And I was like, “All right. “Yessir. “I see where you’re coming from. “I don’t, I don’t claim too much from Chicago, but I will claim pizza. Yeah. And the Chicago Bears. But the, the heritage and history there. Yeah. I mean, you, you get some pretty, you get some pretty good fighters coming out of Chicago, man. Yeah. Especially out of South Side Chicago and, uh- Mm-hmm. Ford Heights, Chicago Heights, Gary, Indiana, Merrillville. Mm-hmm. This area is tough, man. Well, I mean, you guys got Kanye West, right? We do have Kanye. Yeah, got Kanye. And you’re either gonna claim him hard right now- Yeah. or you’re gonna act- Where, where you at? Where you at with this? I think there’s, uh, I think there’s some things about Kanye that we overlook. Yeah. I think there’s some genius to what- Sure. what he does, what he says- Yeah. how he maneuvers. Mm-hmm. I don’t think your average everyday person, um, loses a billiondollar deal and, and, uh, with an Adidas deal and- Yeah. um, still sticks around. Survives, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think there’s something there. When I look at people, I try to understand, uh, people from a deeper level. I don’t, I’m not good at small talk. I’m not good at shallow- Yeah. uh, just surface-level stuff. Yep. When I s- sit in a room, I feel things- Mm-hmm. and I, and I, and I, and I, I could be wrong, but I feel like I understand people from an energy level. Mm-hmm. I know when I’m not wanted in the room type of thing. Yeah, mm-hmm. Um, so whatever that is, uh, I do Kanye the same way, man. I’m looking, I’m trying to learn. I’m trying to see what his strengths are- Yeah. what his weaknesses are. Yeah. And some of the success that I’ve had coming up is being able to do that pretty naturally. Mm-hmm. understanding what somebody’sIt actually gets me in trouble a lot- Yeah. is I’ll see somebody and I’ll see who they are now and I’ll see their potential- Yeah. and I’ll start speaking to the potential immediately. That’s just who I am. Like, “Hey, this is “Sometimes-it comes off as, as you’re not there yet. Yeah, hustle up. Right. Yeah. Sometimes it comes off as that. Even my kids and everything- Yeah. I’m always looking at, “Hey, I know-” Yeah. ” I know who you are. “Yeah. “I feel who you are. “Yeah. “And I’m gonna speak to that- Yeah. rather than speak to where you are right now. “But yeah, again, it’s s- sometimes itYou know, we all have things to workI, I have this to work on, is that, my delivery. Mm-hmm. I have to figure out how to meet people where they are- Mm-hmm. while holding onto the potential. Yeah. ‘Cause right now, I just go straight to theI’m like, “Hey, no, this ain’t gonna work. “Yeah. “You’re way better than this. “Yeah. I, I’m the same way. I, I do the, I rip it off the same way, and, and, you know, um, I, I tell both of my kids, like, “I raise lions- Mm-hmm. and I raise leaders. And I know what you have inside of you, both of you. I give you no slack when it comes to one of those 2, either of those 2 goals. You can be whatever you want in life, but you cannot be lack of those 2 things, period. “And are you- are you willing to be that maybe hated object sometimes? Oh, I- Yeah, yeah. But I- I’m very close with my- my kids. Like, very close with my kids. I love them. We are besties. But they know, like, there is a- there is a line. And, you know, I’ll tell them. I’ll- I’ll- in the conversation, “Hey, we’re gonna step outside of dad zone for a minute. This, this, this, this, and this, unacceptable. We are this. You do this. Get your stuff together. “Yeah. “Not having this anymore. “Blah, blah, blah. You know? And then, “All right, cool, give me a hug. Let’s go. “You know? That’s one of those things that they’re gonna maybe thank you for later. Mm-hmm. Way later. Mm-hmm. I hope so. And right now, it’s like, “Ah, dad’s being- dad’s being hard again. “Yeah. later on- Yeah. when they run circles around people in their league- Mm-hmm. you know, it’s- it’s worth it. Yeah. It’s worth it. Um, I’ve even gone- had to the extent, and this may be a bad thing, I don’t know, I’m just gonna put it out there, but I- I’ve been to the extent where, um, I was leading a sales team- Yep. and, um, of course we all get along fine, everything’s cool, but towards the end, uh, when we sold that company- Mm-hmm. the CEO’s son came to me and said, “Hey, by the way, your team- your team hates working for you. “I’m like, “What? “Like, but we have- we have a deep- we have d- like, deep relationships. Yeah. Like, I watch her kids sometimes. Like, the come over to my house while she’s out making sales. Or, um, we’ve celebrated in certain ways. Like, we go out and we recognize you as i- it’s more of a- it’s more of a relationship, a family, not- Yeah. a sales team. So, it caught me off guard. Yeah. But I had to sit and pray with that. I had to sit and really, really go through that because it hurt me to the core, that- Yeah. that- what he said. Mm-hmm. What I’ve realized too is that when- when you work for me and I’m constantly talking to your potential, it’s gonna leave you feeling a certain way sometimes. Yeah. And again, I gotta come back to this and improve on this, but- Mm-hmm. when they said that, I said, “What are you talking about? “I said, “Three of them are millionaires. “Mm-hmm. Because of the way that we operate in this environment. Yeah. And it’s not cold and harsh. It’s- Yeah. It’s just always, “Hey, you did this. I know you can do that. “Mm-hmm. “Let’s go. “It’s alwaysSo maybe it never feels like they’ve- they’re doing enough. It’s good enough, yeah. Maybe that’s why they hate it- Yeah. or they don’t like it or don’t like me. Mm-hmm. So, we had this love-hate thing going on. Um, and maybe call it a lack of leadership with me or, um, inexperience. I don’t know. But what I did know is they were all badasses. Mm-hmm. And they could all sell. Mm-hmm. And not of all- all of them started selling. They came to me and started selling. Mm-hmm. And, um, the girl that was really, really good at selling was- Mm-hmm. the salesleader when I came on board. Mm-hmm. In about 3 months, they swapped us. Because my mind is more along the lines of patterns and analytics and like, here’s where wethis is the big picture. Mm-hmm. I remember riding in the car with her saying, “Hey,” call her Amy. “Hey, Amy, this- this is a cool position you have at this company. It’s unique. “Like- Yeah. at the time, I was saying, “Man, this is like a $250,000 position if you do it right. “Mm-hmm. And it was just kind of like brushed off. Mm-hmm. And she was- I’m sure she was making low 6 figures at that point in time. So successful for back in the early 2000s, whatever. But when sh- when I said that and it rolled off her shoulder, like, “Oh, whatever,” I knew right then and there, I’m like, “Okay. “Mm-hmm. That didn’t hit. That didn’t register. She needs to be doing something else. Yeah. Not leading a sales team. Yeah. Anyway, they switched us very quickly after that. When I tell you that girl was slaying after a couple months- Yeah. I’m talking about she’s a monster. I don’t want to compete with her today. Yeah. Um, and, uh, after the sale of that company, she never talked to me again or whatever. And we were close too, but- Yeah. ne- never talked to me. So it was one of those situations. But I remember very distinctly understanding at that point in time what the difference was between somebody who is a salesperson, who’s very talented, and somebody who is sales driven- Mm-hmm. somebody who’s a salesleader. Somebody who- Yeah. acknowledges that it’s not just one person or one thing. It’s- it’s a- it’s a combination of- Yeah. a story here that’s gonna drive success and that was a $250,000 position. And it went up and up and up and up. Mm-hmm. And we had a huge success with that team. Grew significantly over the next couple years. But, that was a big lesson for me. Hmm. And that was one of the people that, uh, supposedly doesn’t- didn’t like me. Yeah. But if you’re making that kind of money, if you’re making good money for you and your family, good work-life balance, which I know there was- Mm-hmm. ’cause I promoted that, and you’re making that kind of lifestyle and you don’t like me, then I’m okay with that. Mm-hmm. ButThat’s interesting ’cause I- you know, was gonna ask you that question. You kind of elaborated on it right there too. Um, if someone hates working for you, what is their crux? Is it they’re not successful? Is it they don’t like their work environment? Is it they don’t feel like you’re giving them everything they need, you know, to be successful? There’s got to be something in there. And what is more important, you know, in your eyes, success of your relationships with people or success of them financially? As a sales leader, the- the most important thing is that that salesperson is successful in their life. So that could be financial, that could be f- work-life balance. It could be all those things, right? success with that salesperson is not represented with me and her- Mm-hmm. me and that salesperson. They can like me, love me, hate me. If they love me, and they’re not doing a great job or not operating at their full potential, then I’m failing them as a sales leader too. Mm-hmm. now, if she’s not doing great, or if there are things wrong with the, uh, it’s a hostile organ, whatever, you know- Yeah. all those things, then, then, th- I get it, we need to evaluate this. Yeah. But if you are highly, highly respected in the industry and successful- Mm-hmm. even if you’re doing it in spite of me- Mm-hmm. that’s a successful thing, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. Um, so that’s much different than a father and son- Mm-hmm. a father and daughter. Right. You know what I mean? There has to be that bond, that relationship. Me and my oldest daughter, um, we have the 10 we’re very much alike. Um, we have the tendency to go on different paths for days at a time. And it’s like, man, I haven’t seen this girl in- Mm-hmm. day or week. I don’t know if it’s gotten to a week. But the funny thing about that is, is once we do get together, I mean, that’s the girl that gives me the longest hug out of all of them. Mm-hmm. There’s a connection there, there’s a bond there. Mm-hmm. So, I don’t always judge things off of the face value. Like, the way it looks and the way it is, is different. Um, the value could be different than the way it looks. Mm-hmm. So the same thing, I treat salespeople, and the same, the same way I treat a sales environment, uh, or a business environment, is we don’t actually have to all love each other that much. It would be nice if we did. Yeah. Makes work more enjoyable. Mm-hmm. Um, being effective is the point- Mm-hmm. of that team. And so, if you are not, um, smiling from ear to ear ’cause you have to come into the office today, um, but you are producing the kind of volume that’s at or higher than what you expected at the company in the position, you’re making more- Mm-hmm. your family work-life balance is in order, you, you get the time that you need- Mm-hmm. you get the space from, definitely from me, you get the space to operate in your own life. I’m not ca- I’m trying my hardest not to call you on a weekend, uh, you know, things like that, that’s a successful- Mm-hmm. situation. Mm-hmm. Do you feel like, um, and I’ve, I’ve seen this as I’ve gone through my career, I’ve, and I’ve, and I’ve preached this as well to say you’re gonna work a long time, you’re gonna have a lot of relationships with people that you’ve worked with, and some people that you feel very close to while you’re working with those people. Friendly, very, very friendly with these people. But the moment you step outside of that door, for some reason, that relationship is severed, like it is, it’s gone, right? And I’ve said forever, like, you have a handful of people, I’ve been doing this 28 years, right? You have a handful of people, I got probably 5 people that still reach out and talk to me. In 28 years, I’ve worked with a lot of people, and a lot of close relationships I thought I had, but 5 out of that group are still like, “Hey man, how you been? How’s it going? Just wanna say thanks. You’ve done a lot for me in my career. This is great. Really miss talking to you today. How’s it, how’s it been going this, you know, last year? “Or whatever, right? Why do you think that is? I think it’s hard to sometimes be the stepping stone. Mm-hmm. But if you view it in a way that’s like, hey, I was there in your li-, I know I was there in your life at that point in time, and you took off and your career launched- Mm-hmm. you went on to become successful. I’m gonna take that for what it is, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna pat myself on the back that we had that opportunity to work together and all that. Mm-hmm. I’m not gonna take offenseuh, out of, out of 6 people on that na- national sales team of mine- Mm-hmm. we worked together for 7 years, um, one I still talk to today. Yeah. So, it could hurt your feelings- Mm-hmm. ’cause you go through these times, you go through this war together, you go through- Yeah. these battles together, you put so much blood and sweat into this that it’s like, man, we’re family, I, I would be offended if you didn’t call me back. Yeah. You know? And i- if I’m being honest, I have been offended about it. But I’m, I look at it now that, and there was a season for us. Mm-hmm. And I’m just happy that I was a part of it. Mm-hmm. Maybe one day, God’ll give me that blessing that nudge, w- when they’re on stage somewhere and they’re, they published a book or they’re getting some award and they’re like, “You know what? I’ve never acknowledged this one person. “Mm. And they acknowledge you. Yeah. Maybe they’re gonna, you’re gonna get that. Yeah. Maybe not. But I think it’s important that I, as a person, I acknowledged that I was there. Mm-hmm. Um, and I capture that- Yeah. and s- and pat myself on the back, whatever. Yeah. Um, definitely can’tYou only have room to hold energy in 2 ways- Mm-hmm. It’s either good or it’s bad energy. Yeah. I try my best to release any bad energy. Mm-hmm. Um, even as it’s coming out, I just, I acknowledge it and I, I put it to the side and say, “No. “Mm-hmm. Positive only, man. Yeah. YouThe life is too short. Mm-hmm. But I hopeI mean, for those reasons, I hope, I hope you do get a call. I bet you will get a call one day. ButAnd I hope I do too. Yeah, yeah. I’m gonna take that as a positive experience. Yeah. If that person used me as a stepping stone. Well, IThe only reason I say that is I c- I feel like you and I have a similar, um, outlook on the people that work with us, right? And I say all the time, like, I’m with you here more than I’m with my own family. Like, I am building soAnd it’s years that we worked together, you know? And I hope that I’m building something that is more permanent than, “Yeah, thanks for that paycheck. I’ll see you later. “You know? And at the end of the day, it’s not always. And, and I’m not saying you owe me anything. Not saying that at all. What I was saying was, a hello might be pretty good. You know? Or a, “How you been? “might be pretty good. But then again too, maybe we see things differently with people, uh, than they see us back. And that’s okay too. I just wondered how you felt about it. I think as a business owner, you, you, you see things different. Yeah. Because how many times are you dealing with this problem- Mm-hmm. that’s catastrophic? Right. If you don’t fix this problem, none of these people have a job. Yeah. And you’re doing this. It’s som- you’re notI don’t wanna call it shielding. It’s not heroic whatYou’re building a business. Yeah. But you’re doing these things that they can’t see. Mm-hmm. And so you’re registering that in your soul. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, “Hey, how many times have I saved this situation here? “Yeah. And how much you pour into these people- Mm-hmm. ’cause you actually care. Yeah. And they quit- Yeah. or they move on- Yeah. and you never talk to them again. Yeah. It’sIt almost feels likeIt feels likeYou know, it could be hurtful. Yeah. It’s hurtful. Yeah. It’s da- it’s damn, it’s damn right offensive. I get that. Yeah. But I als- I’ll, I will take the stance though that, that y- there was a time and season for us. Mm-hmm. And that’s not just in business, with employees. That’s also, like, relationships. Yeah, yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. You ever had your heart broken, man? Mm-hmm. It’s the same thing. It’s like, God. The amount of shit I would’ve gone through for this one. Yeah. And she just r- you know? Gonezo. Gone in the wind. But I could al- I could just look at it like this, man. The lessons that I got outta that have built me- Mm-hmm. to be so good, so dangerous. So if it’s business, sharp, dangerous, educated, knowledgeable, resilient. If it’s a relationship, you learn to be kind of fearless too, ’cause you, you, you give all this vulnerability to, to one person. Mm-hmm. Expecting that in return. Yeah. Um, perhaps even committing your life to them, marrying them. Mm-hmm. Um, and then something goes awry, something happens. Yeah. It is very easy to fall into that trap, where you’re just kinda s- stirring that energy and it’s like, “What did I do to deserve that? “Mm-hmm. But for me, it’s like IIt couldn’t happen to anyone better. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, in a sense, I’m, I’m, I’m built for this- Yeah. this life this way. I think relationships and, and business are very similar in that nature, just in general, of being like, you know, things are gonna go right for a while. You know, things are gonna be great for a long time. Or maybe you’ve got your heart set on something or whatever, and when it does break and when, when your business falls to the floor, the thing that keeps, I think, entrepreneurs going is we pop back up. Pop back up, do it again. Get punched in the face, pop back up, do it again. Lot of people fold, you know? And just like in a relationship, man, it’s like, hey man, something’s gonna break at some point. And if it does, you know, are you donezo? Are you done having relationships the rest of your life? I doubt it. Mm. I mean, you might carry some baggage along that you gotta work out personally, you know? And then all of a sudden you learn from those pieces and you get better as a human, you know? Sometimes you learn what’s right. Like, I, I’veThrough past relationships, I’ve learned exactly what I want. Mm-hmm. And, um, that’s incredible. Yeah. Because the way that II don’t know if it’s the way I grew up, whatever, just kind of peacemaking all the time. Yeah. Like, “Hey, mom’s pissed at her husband again. “Yeah. Or this is my stepdad. Whatever. Yeah. You know? I think she had, likeI won’t say that on the air. Mm-hmm. But, you know, she had a lot of husbands. Mm-hmm. Um, and there’s always this stuff going on. So, if you grew up in an environment like that, where you’re constantly peacemaking, you tend to forget who you are, where, what you want, what you need. And so, I feel like I went into my first, uh, I went into my first relationship with that. Mm-hmm. So, it was constantly just, like, uh, this codependence. Yeah. Like, “Hey, if she’s mad, I’m mad. If she’s upset, I’m s- upset. “Or I did it. Worse. Mm-hmm. So, out of that I learned thatI want peace. Mm-hmm. I want, um, respect, and I’m gonna earn it. But I want respect. Sometimes I just want quietness. Mm-hmm. Sometimes I don’t want you to try to solve an issue you only know half-Stuff like that. Mm-hmm. But that’s, that’s the beauty of it, man. Mm-hmm. Just like you’re an artist, man. Mm-hmm. H- do you ever make mistakes, really? Or is it just you just stroke- I think everything’s a mistake, to be quite honest. Dude, that’s amazing. Yeah. That’s amazing. That’s how I wanna live my life. Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, everything is, uhAll you’re doing is, like, covering up the last mistake with a, something else you think’s better, it ends up being a mistake, you cover it up again. It’s just layer upon layer, and till you end up with something at the end, it’s like, “Yeah, it’s pretty good,” or, or not, you know? Dude, that’s awesome. Yeah. I have 9 businesses in my phone- Mm-hmm. that, in the past, I’ve failed at or quit on. Mm-hmm. Like, those aren’t, those aren’t mistakes anymore. Yeah. Those are, those are steppingstones. Those are- Those are layers. Those are tools, man. Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s funny. So I’m gonna get into the, to the relationship, because I think that is s- I, I dug into that a little deeper than normal, but I really think that that part right there is, umIt’s a very big part of business and where you want to go and why you want to get there, right? I think those build our decisions as to, why did I get into business? You know, you said at an early age you started computers. Did you, once you graduated high school, did you say, “Hey, I’ve gotta go to x school,” or, “I’ve gotta do this or that,” so you didn’t go to the mill or you did go to the blah blah thing or whatever? Dude, I’m gonna tell you right now, just getting out of high school was a miracle. Um, I’m pretty sure if my mom’s watching this, she might admit, she might not, but I think she graduated me, ’cause she worked for the school corporation. She was at the computer. Yeah. I don’t know what happened. I probably shouldn’t have graduated. Anyway, my point is, is that all through school, I sucked. I couldn’t conform. I, I just was aI just hated everything about school. Mm-hmm. n- I did do pretty good at economics. I did certain things that interested me. PE was fun, whatever. Mm-hmm. Business- Mm-hmm. When you’d put out, when you did the, um, that fake stock trading account? Yeah. love printing money. I love, like, seeing that move. The reason I think that I had so much interested in that is, interest in that, is because where I grew up, I justAside from the things that I need that my mom did so good at providing- Mm-hmm. and I don’t know how she did it, the things that I wanted, it just seemed like I could never get those. Mm-hmm. I never had the resource. I neverThe only 4wheeler I ever had at my house- Mm-hmm. was my brother’s, and I wrecked it. Mm-hmm. And it was like, “Dude, I would be, I would get something that would be so cool, by some miracle, from my brother or whatever, and I would ruin it. “But anything that I wanted myI just always, I was always wanting- Mm-hmm. something, and I could, I had to figure out how to get those things. So really it was kind of running fromChasing money, I was running from that. Mm-hmm. Even to this day, the fear of being poor or broke, or even in just my perspective, I may not even be broke, um, in comparison to the general population. But in my mind, dude, I’m running so hard from that. Mm-hmm. I don’t want to be there. I don’t want my kids to be there. Mm-hmm. Um, fear of not having the power to say, “Yes, I’ll get that or grab that or this,” or, “I’ll move these pieces around how I want. “Mm-hmm. Or, “No, you won’t do that to my family,”- Mm-hmm. type of thing- Mm-hmm. um, has driven me to where I’m at now. Yeah. And there is a huge double-edged sword on it too. Mm-hmm. It’s because I’ll bring that trauma into raising my kids. Mm-hmm. And the natural tendency for that is to just give them what they, what they want. Yeah. Dude. Yeah. If there is one type of person that impresses me today, it’s a rich parent that has good kids. Mm-hmm. And if you look at a lot of people that are wealthy, and you look at their kids- Mm-hmm. namely, their first or second kid, trouble. Mm-hmm. All kinds of trouble, whether it’s drugs or addiction, or things that they’re, they’re looking for that money just can’t solve. Mm-hmm. Those are the problems that come out ofSo if you, so if you’re a wealthy family and you have good kids with good heads on their shoulders- Yeah. you’ve done twice as good a job as me. Um, growing up where we couldn’t necessarily buy everything. I had to say no a lot. Mm-hmm. Or I had it in my mind that I know, “Hey, you’re gonna have to”Just the other day, my youngest, or my second youngest, I got too many kids. My 9yearold wanted this toy from this expo that we were walking, and, um, it wasn’t just like, “Oh yeah, cool. Go get it. “I said, “Hey, Reagan. I’ll get you that, but you have to bring 5 people to this booth,” my dad’s booth. They were selling- Mm-hmm. jewelry. I’m like, “But you have to bring 5 people out there from the expo into this booth. “Mm-hmm. This girl, within, like, 5 minutes had 11 people-at the booth, walking through the booth. Yeah. I’m like, “All right. You know what? Quit. Let’s go. “Yeah. “I’ll go get her the dragon. “So point is, is that I know in my head, I’ve acknowledged the fact that ki- it’s not good for kids to just get stuff. Just to get. They gotta earn it, man. Yeah. They gottaAnd s- in little ways, too. Mm-hmm. Not just, you don’t have to make ’em stack bales of hay- Yeah. all day. But in little ways they can earn it. Mm-hmm. Just like that. It took her 5 minutes, and she felt that accomplishment and the, how proud she was. Mm-hmm. And then, of course, Dad’s patting her on the back, like, “Wow, you surprised me, kid. “Yeah. “It’s, it’s amazing. “Yeah. And Grandpa’s excited, like, “Wow, you pulled people over to this booth. You are something special. “Yeah. All that. The dragon was kinda little to her. Of course she was excited about it, but it becomes, it becomes smaller and smaller. Yeah, the further away. Yeah. There’s bigger things to get out of an accomplishment, rather than a toy. Yeah. So I lead with that. Yeah, yeah. I lead with, “Hey, you want this? “Mm-hmm. “All right. We’ll do that. “And so my, my son, um, is 18 now. He’s kind of in his lazy phase, and ILazy, I mean, he’s still r- he, he operates a little lawn mowering business. He does stuff, right? Yeah. He’s learning stuff in my business, in the excavation business, to, to advance. But overall, he’s probably the hardest one on myI, I, like, I’m the hardest on him. Yeah. And it goes back to this thing where I, like, I feel bad for those kids I was just talking about, kids that the families ha- have- Mm-hmm. what they need. They’re well-to-do, right? Yeah. I feel bad for that first or second born kid. Because that kid, not only does everybody think everything is given to him. If he, in my opinion, if he has a good father, his f- father’s making him work for everything, too. Yeah. And that’s the story of my son. Mm-hmm. The 18-year-old. Dude, he doesn’t get any answers from me anymore. Mm-hmm. If he asks me a question, he answers it himself. Mm-hmm. I’m maybe a little bit extreme about it. But the kid now, he goes out. He hustles. He understands that if he wants something, he’s gotta do it himself. Mm-hmm. Not to say he hasn’t had a lot of blessings in his life. He’s, he’s privileged and blessed, you know? Mm-hmm. But, dude, that’s the, that’s the sauce of life. Mm-hmm. Is when your kids understand that that accomplishment actually feels better than whatever- Yeah. they’re gonna get. Right. It breaks you away from the tool of the system, which is money. Yeah. There’s this, there’s a tool. We, for some reason, think this dollar is worthIt’s not even worth – Paper. It’s not even worthYeah, yeah,We believe that. Mm-hmm. We fall for that. And some people call it the rat race. Yeah. I call it the rat race. Yeah. You’re running in circles for this dollar, trading such valuable time for this dollar. Mm-hmm. If you’re achievement focused or if you’re focused on contributing value- Mm-hmm. that money comes regardless. Mm-hmm. It comes. But if you’re focused on being a certain person that’s gonna get money, dude, you’re going clocking in. Nothing wrong with that, but you’re clocking in. Yeah, 100%. You’re gonna work 40, 50 years. Yeah. And you’re gonna take the last 10 you have in retirement to enjoy family if you do it right. Yeah. Most people are not doing that. And that’s what’s called life? dude. Yeah. That’s not how my kids are doing it. It won’t happen. Well, let’s, let’s jump into the, uh, serial failures that we talked about early on in this thing. Yeah. I mean, e- I mean, y- we got toI mean, we’ve kinda jumped all around. We’ve actually gone a long way around this when haven’t really even talked about your business much. Um, jumping into the serial failures of where you’ve kinda gone fromYou graduated high school. Your first job wasfirst job was, uh, at 16, was pizza place. Yep. And, um, so I went through the whole motion with that. think I m- may have turned conservative when I saw the taxes on the first one. So I got that lesson hard the first time. Um, jumped around from job to job, similar to school. Yep. Just didn’t fi- I was unemployable. Mm-hmm. Showing up late or- Mm-hmm. doing whatever I wanted. Mm-hmm. And, um, and that escalated, um, and I had a huge lazy phase going through school. My mom had to, like, just do all these things to keep me in the college and- Mm-hmm. ended up joining the military. Um. What branch? Navy. Okay. I worked on the flight deck. Um, I did one term with them, and, uh, I don’t regret a minute of it. And through then, I, I had some sales jobs through then, independent business consulting, yada, yada, yada. And through the militaryI was still doing one of those jobs and learned how to hustle when we’re out to sea, how to make money out to sea, doing people’s laundry, selling things like dip- Mm-hmm. for exorbitant amounts of money. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, the hustle started, I think, when I joined the- the military. ‘Cause before I was doing it for the look. “Hey, I’m an independent sales consultant. “”I’ll sell you credit card processing or payroll. “Yeah. Uh-huh. I was a, I was a scumbag, dude. I was slummy, dude. I just didn’t make any sales, and I just was just not good at it. The military started the hustle. Okay. ‘Cause I knew, I knew, “Hey, I’m not gonna be in the military for the rest of my life. “Yeah. Some of these guys, God bless them. Mm-hmm. It’s too hard for me, dude. If you got a family and you’re serving 20 years, and you’re gone 70% of that time, dude, not for me. Yeah. Uh, gotta love them, but that’s not gonna be me. So I, the hustle started then. I’m like, “All right, I have to be different now. “Yeah. So, um, started working on a deal through relationships, a deal to broker a lemonade called Cabana Lemonade into a store called Safeway in California. Okay. Worked on that for about, I think, 11 months. 2 days before I got out of the military, I’ve exited the military. Mm-hmm. I’ve pulled my family, my wife, 2 kids, out of the, out of the military. We’re supposed to be going to Colorado Springs to do this deal. 2 days before, um, I figure out that they went around me- Hm. which they could. I didn’t make it hard for them. Yeah. They went around me, did the deal themselves. Mm-hmm. And so that means no commission, no broker fee, nothing for me to live on. And we’re talking about a lot of money. Yeah. If I would have gotten that money, I’d probably be on drugs and dead today. Yeah. That’s how immature my mind was and- Yeah. I wasn’t ready for that. Yeah. But I found that out 2 days- Yeah. before I actually physically left the military. Mm-hmm. So now I’ve canceled the military, which was my way of life, my mea- means of providing. Yeah. Um, I’ve, moving to Colorado Springs, which I have nothing there for us now. Yeah. There’s nothing there. And something happened in my life. I, I think it was God. I was nudged to go to Frisco, Texas. Mm-hmm. And why, I still didn’t have a job down there. Yeah. And, uh, got down there, ended up getting a job doing the same thing I was doing before the military. Hm. Brokering services to small businesses, sucking at it. Mm-hmm. Bad dude is miserable. Um, and, uh, my aunt married a guy that owned a small security guard company. Hm. And, uh, as soon as I met him, we, we clicked, hit it off the bat. We’re still friends to this day. Yeah. They’re divorced. And, uh, he started asking me to come work for him. And it seemed like it was a couple of months, maybe. He was a- asking me, “Hey, you know, what are you-” Mm-hmm. Whatever, we were talking about going to work for him. Well, they capped the commission at the company. I think they capped you at 150 grand, and even though that was really good money in my mind- Mm-hmm. I still, it was just this ego ball, man. Mm-hmm. I’m like, “Nah, I don’t wantI’m, I don’t have a cap on commission here. “Yeah. “Uh, so I’m not coming to you if you cap commission. “Yeah. Anyway, they uncapped it. I ended up going to work for him, and that was that first company that sold in 2021. Mm-hmm. Uh, 6 or 7 years later. And that’s where I learned the, the sale, the girl I was telling you about who was in a sales leadership position, missed that- Mm-hmm. message from me. Then we swapped positions. Yeah. So that’s where that all started. And, uh, I think ever since then, I knew my, my place, and I was just, I was just built for the hustle game. I was built for sales. I was built for moving at 100 miles an hour. Um, almost to the point of a bad addiction. Mm-hmm. Where I was flying everywhere and always gone. And I missed a lot of crucial things- Yeah. that, if I could go back and do it again, I would have just grabbed the lesson real quick and then showed up to the game. Yeah. Um, huge regrets there. Maybe I didn’t miss any games, but I missed a lot, right? Mm-hmm. I was gone. Um, that led me into the divorce. Mm-hmm. And, uh, the friendliest divorce I’ve ever seen. Hm. You know, so I knew something was, um, something was special about that other person. Yeah. You know, we had an amicableThe attorneys were mad. Dude, me and this girl just, we had everything written down, “Hey, this is what she’s getting, this is what I’m getting. “We submitted it to them. Yeah. They were mad. Like, they couldn’t get us ra- ruffled. Yeah, they wanted to deal on some hours. They wanted some hours, man. Yeah. And as, as much as this girl bothered me, and, and triggered me in my traumas and all that, I knew she was a good person. And we, we ended up settling that. We’re still friends to this day. Mm-hmm. Kids are fluid, they go back and forth, we’reEverything’s cool in that regard. the lesson I had to learn there, man, was such a, was such a hard lesson. What you gave up? What I gave up. Yeah. Yeah. What I didn’t, and what I didn’t fight for, man. And I do think today it’s better that it happened the way it happened. But, you know, some of the things that I missed- Mm-hmm. just from pure arrogance or from pure addiction. Mm-hmm. Um, whether it be money, or the ima- the image- Mm-hmm. the flashiness. Um, I was addicted to something other than building my character. Yeah. Now, I’m, now I’m the opposite. Yeah. Now, my character, to me, is more important than anything. And it’s so weird how much momentum comes with that, too. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause people wanna do business with people that have character, that have good character. Yeah. Nobody wants to deal with a scumbag. Somebody gotta watch their shoulder, watch over their shoulder on. Yeah, dude. Somebody that says, “Hey. “Even if it’s a handshake, that says, “Hey, this is the way it’s gonna be. And even if it doesn’t turn out exactly how I want it, I’m still gonna give you this out of the deal. “Yeah. Like, me and my current business partners, like there was a deal there where it was all on paper. Like, we actually disagreed on their payout. We disagreed. And I just, to start the conversation, I said, “Hey, because I told you this is the payout for you guys, that’s what it’s gonna be, but I wanna talk about how I disagree with it. “Mm-hmm. So we disagreed. Yeah. All day. But we kept the deal. Mm-hmm. That was the deal. That’s the style of person I am now. Mm-hmm. Maybe it hurts me, I don’t know. But to me, I can go home and sleep at night. I can lay my head down and know that I treated everybody I interacted with, I didn’t screw anybody, I treated them right. To me, I think God rewards that. I feel like life is undefeated. Mm-hmm. You, you mess with people, you do people bad, it might not be now or tomorrow or the next day. Sooner or later, those cards you dealt are coming. 100%. And life is undefeated, dude. Yeah. And so, I wanna be that guy. Like, not the guy that hasn’t made mistakes or done anybody wrong- Yeah. but the guy that, from here on forward- Mm-hmm. is even if it hurts or makes me less money in a deal, the truth’s gonna happen. Yeah, when you’re looking at it the same way, you’re looking at multiple years of partnering with a person, right? Is way more valuable than, “Let me burn this guy for, for a month or two and see what I can get out of him. “Like, don’t you know, like, long-term partnerships work best for both of you? aren’t you still surprised by it, when you hear about stuff like that? It’s crazy. It’s like nobody’s played the game of chess before. Like, dude, just look at it. You- There’s more than one move. Yeah. Dude. And that’s how I, that’s how I see it, too. There’s, there’s, there’s no wholesome reason to, to deal with somebody in a way like that. Mm-hmm. eventually, you’re gonna succumb to your ownMm-hmm. You’re gonna reap what you sow. Mm-hmm. And do you wantAnd, and bigger than that, when you come home to your kids, when your kids were littleUh, how old are your kids now? 20 and almost 17. So when your kids wereAnd my, my kids are all grown up, too. I have one really young one. But when you come home to that, that boy, and he’s looking up to you, like-“Dude- Yeah. you’re the greatest thing on earth. “Yeah. You just walk back in the door- Yeah. and the mom’s glaring at you, like, “Ah, you little”Mm-hmm. “Dude, I am the be- I am the champion when I walk in. Yeah. That kid loves me, dude. Mm-hmm. And I just screwed somebody over- Mm-hmm. who has a kids- Mm-hmm. who’s providing for their family, who’s trying to- Who’s trying to do the same thing, yeah. Dude, don’t. Mm-hmm. You don’t have to do that. Yep. There’s so much money you can make out here- Yep. in such a good way- Yep. and honest way that you just don’t have to do it. Yeah. And so, I’ve had these lessons. I’ve dealt with some people along the way that, um, were maybe a little younger in their brain, their mindset. I had one situation. He’s still in my life, and I consider him a friend. But back in the day, there’s something about stealing- Mm-hmm. that made him excited- Mm-hmm. that made him accompli- feel accomplished. And we were going off to a job, whatever, I don’t know what it was. But he hopped back in the truck after leaving the gas station, he threw his Zippo lighter on the counter and he’s like, “Look at that. “Like, “Dude, oh, cool. You bought a Zippo? “He’s like, “No, man, I yanked it. “Or whatever he said. I forgot what he said. I’m like, “Dude, $3. 99, first. second, you just took from somebody else. “Mm-hmm. I don’t care what it is, dude. It’s like, I did that back in middle school and high school. You know when you’ d go in a, you’re going to raid a CVS? Mm-hmm. Dude, I had the best doctor, uh, what are they called? Dr. Grip pens. Okay, yeah. The 0 uh, the PhD pencils? Yeah. Like, the best mechanical pencil in high school. I had it, dude. Yeah. So I was just rigging my pockets with it- Yeah. from CVs. But, like, that’s the s- that’s the mentality. Yeah. You feel accomplished from taking? Still dealing with that today- Yeah. in adulthood, man. And it’s like, I have the opportunity to pat this guy on the shoulder- Mm-hmm. and say, “Dude, you are different than that now, man. “Mm-hmm. “You have so much more to look forward to. “Mm-hmm. And to steal that. And he went and took it back. Yeah. It’s all good. But if I won’t do that with a $3 Zippo, think I’m gonna do that when there’s m- 2 more commas in the deal? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Now, we’re sitting with three million dollars on the table, or $30,000 on the table. And it’s like, “Man, we”It actually just happened to me with a client. Like, our surveying was off. to our benefit. Yeah. To the tune of like, I don’t know, 9,000 bucks or something. And it was like, I could just not tell my client about this. Yeah. Matter of fact, I got that guidance from somebody that’s not at the company anymore. “Ah, just don’tJust stay quiet. This happens all the time in this industry. “Ah, dude, I’m gonna go home and I’m gonna think about that. Mm-hmm. Well, this was one of the moments where I actually got the blessing in return. Mm-hmm. It was like, “Hey, I’ll give you that. “I didn’t get any big deals out of it. Who cares? But the guy came back to me and said, “Hey, man, because you gave that back, we gave it to this other contractor who messed up his bid-” Mm-hmm. ” and he was gonna take a huge loss”And we’re gonna, we’re gonna reallocate that. “Like, dudeThat’s awesome. No skin off my back, 1. Yeah. 2, this other guy who made a huge mistake, who could crumble his business, a sm- Yeah. It was a small business. Yeah. Took all his profit outta the deal, sucked the air outta the room for him. But for me, it’s just like, no, I just was gonna give it back ’cause I messed up a little bit. Yeah. Dude, I live for that shit. That was awesome. No, I love that shit, dude. Yeah, 100%. And imagine if we just, as a species- Mm-hmm. we just, we just, we just worked to people’s benefit. Yeah. You just didn’t have to take somebody by the throat all the time. It’s like so many people in, in life think that business is about being the person to get the upper hand, you know? And I, I don’t believe it is. I believe business is about fair earnings for fair work, you know, and doing what you say. If I tell you I’m going to do X for you, do X. And if you don’t, call it on yourself. Be the first person to say, “You know what? Said we were gonna do this. You may not ever see this, but guess what? Here’s blah, blah, blah. “You know? Um, we have this conversation non-stop up here to say, you know, “Well, you know, if we messed up, you, we better make sure we call them and tell them right now. “know? And 9 times outta 10, someone’s gonna see that and go, “Man, I really appreciate what you’ve done here. I see honesty outta this thing,” or whatever. Y- of course, you’re gonna get chewed sometimes too, you know? But that’s part of it. You did mess up, you know? You did mess up. Right. And that is their business. And maybe you’re just catching strays from something they were upset about from beforehand. But on the other side of that upsetnessUpsetness? On the other side of being upset- I like it. I like that. On the other side of being upset, people are gonna kinda look over and go, “You know, hey, that was pretty solid. They called themselves on that. “You know, without me having to go, “What was this? “And you made up a lie about it or whatever, you know what I mean? So, um, no, I can appreciate that wholeheartedly. Um, jumping intoYou’ve gone through a lot of philosophy about business. You went to the security business and worked your way up through that, through sales, that sold, then you jumped into something. I heard you a minute ago say something about crypto. Were that, was that a part of your life or something? Yeah, cry- crypto is, uh, is a part of my life. It’s, um, it’s not the, not the best part of my life. Yeah. Um, big, big high risk stuff in crypto. Yeah. But, um, just another environment for me to analyze and look and see patterns and do- Mm-hmm. do the things that really make me happy. Mm-hmm. Um, but, no, I’ve lost a lot of money in crypto. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. Probably more thanJust more than you would expect. Are you on the up with it or are you on the- Are you, you, you on a loss with it? I think overall unrealized, I’m up. Okay. Um, because I made some good moves early on where like something jumped and I’m like, “All right, immediately I’m like, I know that’s too good to be true. “Yeah. “So I’m gonna break off 20% and-” Yeah. ” spread it into this other development going on. “Yeah. Um, but, uh, I’ve seen a lot, a lot of great lessons in crypto. Not just crypto, but options and stocks and all that. Mm-hmm. I’ve lost a lot of money, dude. Um, and it goes back to the way that I, that I think about life, dude, uh, when I see these challenges happening, these things happening. Uh, maybe that one Friday I lost like 30 grand in one, one fell swoop. I wasn’t like happy or pleased about it. And by no means was I in the position to be able to take that loss. But when I look at it now- Mm-hmm. la- dude, I laugh about it. Such a hard lesson. Such a great lesson. Yeah. There’s been 3 times that people have told me about crypto. Once was in 2015, I think, um, uh, gosh, I think it was at, um, 5,000, you know, a piece. Uh, I said it was way too much for me to invest for- for- one, uh, one Bitcoin. And, uh, then all of a sudden that came back to me again later on and it was like, I don’t know, it’d gone up to likeI got paid out of some art for some or whatever. And, uh, you know, that stuff, you know, took an investment and then it went up to like 30, you know, and I was like, “Oh, that’s cool. That’s awesome. “And then all of a sudden it sunk down, all the way down to like, what? 10 or- or no, 19, I think is what the low was when it got back. And, uh, and I was like, “Man, I gotta let this thing hold back on. “And so when it rose back up, I broke even and got out of it. Within 3 months it went to 60, 80, 90, 120. I was like, “Gosh, man. “I was- I’d held onto that for so long waiting for it to break back even again and then it just skyrocketed the moment I sold it. Would you rather be that guy or would you rather be the guy that spent 15,000 bitcoin on pizzas? Yeah, I would not put that up there. That’s a tough one, man. I pray for that gentleman. Yeah. I pray that he had 30,000 bitcoin- Yeah. and he only used 15. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but that kinda stuff ha- it’s a- Yeah. I mean, it’s a crazy world. Mm-hmm. This crypto run up from- Yeah. uh, I think the earliest I saw was like 2012, ’13- Yep. when bitcoin was just, um, a drug- Yeah. transaction. But I do remember looking at it w- when it was 3 digits. Yeah. And neverI didn’t get into it ’til 2020. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, yeah. Not a huge, not a huge part of my life, um, in terms of, uh, lessons, but, but- Yeah. it’s certainly a fun one. Definitely a rollercoaster. Definitely an area of interest for the future too. Yeah. It’s doing nothing but growing and, more adoption coming. Now that governments are in it. Yeah. Uh, yeah, get you some bitcoin, man. Yeah. And don’t look at it. Yeah, just let- let it be. Just forget about it for a while. All my kids have, uh, bitcoin. Yeah. Like through Cash App, they’ll have- Mm-hmm. I’ll pay ’em for something and they’ll- they’ll inve- Mm-hmm. I’m so proud of my daughter, my oldest daughter. Mm-hmm. She’ll justEvery time I give her money, she earns money. She’ll take a little bit of that, put it in her- her saddle savings or her horse stuff. Mm-hmm. She likes this hobby on the side, the horse, and the other bit of it’ll go to bitcoin. So I’m just soSee where it goes. Yeah. Yeah. So at what point did you break into Dirt Rock Dallas? Which is currently where you’re at. Yeah. Dirt Rock. Funny story about Dirt Rock. I, uh, after the sale in 2021 in the security guard company, I was under a non-compete. They didn’t want me back in the business, um, so I tried to start my own security company then. Got a letter from the big boy saying, “Hey, cease and desist there or we’ll sue you. “Mm-hmm. So I stopped that and I went to work for a great company outta North Carolina. Great people, great company. But, at the end of the day, getting fired from- from that company, um, because of Dirt Rock. Hmm. Because of me. Um, you know, I didn’t tell anybody over there I had a company on the side and all that, so e- ethically probably not a good thing to do. But I had these- this great group of guys that was doing all the work. They were in this business, like, helping me build this thing up. And 2 of them are partners. And, um, all in all, there was 2 things I think that got me fired from that. One is Dirt Rock. Um, my focus, my passion, my energy was somewhere else. No matter what I sold or how much I sold any given year, you could tell I wasn’t doing the best I could. Mm-hmm. And 2, that vaccine thing. They- they sent me the vaccine notice like, “Hey, you gotta get this, you gotta get that. “And for whatever reason I didn’t wanna do it- Mm-hmm. and I didn’t want a company telling me to do it at least. Yeah. And, uh, so that played into the personality conflicts I’ve had with- with leaders over there. Mm-hmm. But Dirt Rock, yeah, Dirt Rock is- is- is my baby and, umAnd that was the first company I got fired from. I went to another company after that that was like, umThat was a equity set-up, like- Yeah. “Hey, meet these goals and you’ll become an equity partner here and you’ll be an owner of this entity. “Mm-hmm. Uh, that didn’t work out, man. Yeah. I love my energy and my passion. So, so Dirt Rock. Yeah. Um, it’s a brand coming up in Dallas right now. We’re just getting on the map, on the radar. And, uh, we build foundations for the future, man. We buildWe- we stabilize the ground that you’re gonna pour your concrete on, that you’re gonna build your big skyscraper on, that you’re gonna build this building that’s gonna be there for 50 to 100 years. Mm-hmm. And, um, so I love the legacy deal in dirt work. I love the legacy deal. How do you- how do you stabilize the ground? Well, s- you could do it different ways. One is, um, for like homes you can do soil injections or basically what we call it is moisture conditioning. You dig up a certain depth- Mm-hmm. call it 5 feet. Most of the time in commercial it’s 10 feet. Mm-hmm. You dig down, you pull the dirt out of the ground, you spray it with water to a certain, um, um, density, and then you put it back in and compact it in layers coming up. That creates a more stable earth. Mm-hmm. Um, thenOr you could, um, you do the same thing, you top it with a higher quality layer of soil called select fill, it’s just- Mm-hmm. a higher clay content and then you can also mix lime in with it. A lot of people do lime. Yeah. They’ll mix lime in. It’s that white foam you see getting sprayed all over these highways. Mm-hmm. Lime goes into it, you mix it up and remix it and it creates a more stable, um, surface to put concre- Is it like a brick, hard top of a finish? Like how does itYeah, when you compact it down-you’re- you’re compacting to 95% compaction, meaning- Okay. um, there’s only a 5%, gap or air or space within this dirt after we’re done with it. What is the- what is compaction of, like-concrete or? Shoot, that’s a good question. Um, but we, you can get dirt over 100% compaction. Okay. So hard as a rock. Okay. That deal I was just telling you about earlier, the big mural going up- Mm-hmm. this guy getting this, this huge painting on thisI think you need to do it, by the way. Um, we had to compact the ground there because he needs that skylift to go around the water tower- Mm-hmm. and go up 185 feet. So there’s 40,000 pounds of pressure going down onto these tires or whatever these things are- Yeah. these pads. And the ground needed to be stabilized. Yeah. Or else it’ll tip. And if you’re tipping when you’re 185 feet in the air- Yeah. uh, dude, you’re gonna soil your underwear. Yeah. Um, because a little bit down here is like a-huge up there. Yeah. Super unsafe. So we did it for that, um, 95 plus compaction for that. Mm-hmm. So it’s needed everywhere, and I love being a part of that. Yeah. Like, our guys don’t just go onto a site saying, “Hey, we’re just gonna move this dirt around. “Mm-hmm. No, dude. We’re prepping this dirt. Mm-hmm. For, like, multiple generations. Mm-hmm. There’s gonna be hundreds of people that come through this place. Yeah. They’ll never even think about us. Mm-hmm. But we’ll be able to say, “Dude, we, we captured a little coin, a little piece of that history now. “When you compact that earth like that and you get it down so hard, right, it becomes, you know, super dense. Like, if I poured water back over the top, will it start to absorb through that and expand, or, like, what does water do to something that’s been compacted? Yeah, it, it, it’ll still absorb to a certain amount, but it’ll certainly slick off the side. You’ll see it rolling off the side of it. Um, most of it’ll go off, off that surface. Hmm. That’s why you, you really can’t grow grass too well on a surface that’s been prepped like that. Okay. And that’s why they throw concrete right over the top of that, and it, it keeps the concrete from, um, heaving and moving- Hmm. underneath. The soil around here is horrible. If you, if you’re in North Dallas, you know what I’m talking about- Mm-hmm. with the foundation issues and things like that. Yeah. So we can help prevent that- Mm-hmm. over at Dirt Rock. So are you going through digging pillars and things like that as well, or is it just conditioning of the dirt? Uh, for us, we do, uh, we do everything from utilities, the dirt work, all the way into the concrete. Mm-hmm. We have partners that do the concrete for us. So yeah, we’ll pour, we’ll drill piers 10 feet down into the earth and concrete will go into those piers. Mm-hmm. Help stabilize that founda- Like, I have a development right now going on in Princeton. These pads are only 1800 square feet. Mm-hmm. But there’s 36 piers on each of them. Wow. I mean, I, if I would, if I were to be, put my tinfoil hat on, I would think this guy’s doing something crazy with these homes because they’re so built. Yeah. Post-tensioning, columns in piers, there’s a waffle pattern foundation with piers and post-tensioning. Dude, you probably couldn’t blow that up with a bomb. Hmm. And this is how this guy’s building these homes. So anyway, there’s all kinds of crazy stories in it, or digging up things that really crazy to see. Mm-hmm. One of our clients, um, does archeological digs. He digs down on the ground, he’s looking for bones and stuff before the highway comes through. Mm-hmm. They have these guys go out there and dig for bones and artifacts and things so that not only do they test the sample, uh, test and soil, uh, test and sample the soil, but they’re also looking for bones and things that of, of historical value. Yeah. So all kinds of cool stuff, man. That’s awesome. So yeah, um, our mission at our company- Mm-hmm. is cooler than just, you know, we’re just cutting in the dirt, man. Mm-hmm. We’re part of the legacy of the people that founded the country. Mm-hmm. We’re part of the people that built the country, the Rockefellers, the Carnegies- Mm-hmm. the trains, the, the buildings, the oil and gas. We’re part of that. Mm-hmm. I like to look at it like that too. I don’t want anybody at, at Dirt Rock looking at their job as like, “Hey, they’re just”Not to say pushing, um, 10 yards of dirt with a freaking 80,000-pound bulldozer isn’t cool. Right. It is. That’s cool alone. Mm-hmm. But these guys will get used to it. They get in their dozer and they’re like, “Oh man, we’re just pushing dirt today. “No, dude. No, the hell you’re not. Mm-hmm. Like, you’re prepping for the next tarmac at this airport, dude. That’s freaking badass. Yeah. So, but I think that’s why our brand is becoming successful. I think that’s why, like, a lot of reasons why us and com- Like, we run successful companies. Mm-hmm. You gotta find the magic in things, dude. Mm-hmm. If they saw what just you saw, if, if your guys who worked for you s- saw only your view and what- Mm-hmm. was what you saw- Right. they’d think you’re fucking crazy. Yeah. And I think you have to be a little bit. Yeah. A little bit slightly delusionally optimistic- Mm-hmm. um, to miss all this potential crazy bad stuff that could happen to you. Right. And look at your job as instead of pushing dirt, you’re building a city. Hm. Dude, it’s a big deal. Yeah. So, uh- I mean, you see it as a dream, and you get people to buy in on that dream too, as well, right? So it’s, well, that’s a, that’s a really cool point, right? Do you guys consider your business more, uh, commercial or residential? So, what’s special about our company is we can do both. We focus on commercial, but we’ve organized a team that’s specifically for small deals. Mm-hmm. Namely, residential deals. Um, anything less than a 100k, these guys are looking at it, saying, “All right, how do we do this to the best of our ability? “Mm-hmm. They got a small crew. They only do those jobs, but they get the equipment and the expertise from the commercial side. Mm-hmm. And a lot of money isI mean, one of these GPS systems is 50 grand, dude. Right. It’s not l- you’re like, you’re not gonna have somebody who just does driveways- Mm-hmm. that has GPS systems like this. Yeah. You may, but they’re overspending. Yeah. We have them because we need them in commercial side. Mm-hmm. So, all I have to do now is lend that equipment and expertise to this guy doing a driveway for us. Yeah. And we keep both those sides active, and they’re both- Mm-hmm. very good business. Tell me about the GPS system. I don’t know, I’m not sure that I follow how that helps. Well, there’s gotta be a way for you to understand on every piece of property. There’s gotta be a way for you to understand where you are on that property according to the plans that were engineered for that property. After it’s been surveyed. Exactly. Right. Surveyed and engineered. Like, plans are built and measured for a property based on what its use is gonna be. Mm-hmm. And so for me, in order to know where this commercial pad is gonna go, I have to know exactly where I’m at on that property. That’s where the GPS functionality comes in. Not only for understanding the elevation- Mm-hmm. but where are you at on this property? Where are the building corners? Mm-hmm. Where is the work space? Yeah. So, these systems that we have on the commercial side help us understand exactly that. Yeah. And that’s how we’re able to get things down to a, a millimeter. Yeah. Elevation, like, like, super low toll- or high tolerances, I should say. Yeah. the city has an idea for what this building’s gonna do, so they say it has to be a certain elevation and a certain way on this property. We have to come in and we have to vector that on a digital image- Hm. and say, “All right, that’s what it looks like on here. “And then we have to upload that to the machines and upload that to our GPS survey equipment. Mm-hmm. So, that’s kinda what, what it does. Hm, that’s very interesting. And then there’s- I love it. Hey, y- you gotta, you gotta think about too, like, if you’re building a retaining wall or something like that, or building up some dirt preparing for a retaining wall, and it doesn’t have GPS on it. Next thing you know, you’ve prepared something that’s gone onto someone else’s property. They end up building that retaining wall, and ev- next thing you know, you get papers, tear it all down, redo the work. Dude, the biggest point of damage in our business is water. Where does the water flow? Not just where is it gonna flow, like, right when we’re done, it could flow somewhere. If we don’t build it right, it’s gonna eat and cut and carve out, and sooner or later, it’s gonna be flowing the wrong way. Mm. So, we have to, we have toOur work is controlling water. Okay. That’s what excavators do. They control water. Okay. And they prepare the ground for heavy slabs- Mm-hmm. and things like that. mainly, where does that water flow? Mm-hmm. So, yeah, if we do our job wrong, we could get a complaint the day after we’re done. We could get a complaint for 10, 10 years down the road. Yeah. And so building a brand like us, it goes back to a fair, like, what is business in their, i- transaction? Mm-hmm. You know, fair transactions, right? Well, the reason we charge so much for our business is ’cause we’re gonna do it right. Yeah. And then when you call me down the road and say, “Hey, this isn’t turning out the way-” Mm-hmm. ” we said it was. “Yeah. “All right, we’ll be right back. “Mm. “We’ll come and do it. “Not everybody’s gonnaThe scams come in when a company comes in, they’re not willing to do that. They’re not willing to back it, right? They’re not, like, f- for instance, for, in your business, when you build a website or you build d- uh, you build this digital landscape for somebody, somebody else could probably come in with AI and, like, attempt to do it in a way that looks as quality. Right. And hell, they might get close the way it looks. Yeah. But the way it functions- The way it performs. the way it performs on the backend- Yeah. is not just, you can’t just come in and do that overnight. Right. You have to be good at it. Yeah. And so when somebody comes in and they try to charge what you charge- Yep. that’s scammy to me. Yeah. You’re charging a lot because there’s, there’s reasons- Yep. for that. Mm-hmm. Well, that’s what I’m doing. We’re building up- ‘Cause hours involved, yeah. Uh, the hours involved, the intelligence. Mm-hmm. The, the team that you’ve built- Mm-hmm. is based on quality. And so the scams, the peop- the, the, the bad business deals that happen are because some people make it look really good- Mm-hmm. like you’re actually doing that. Right. And people like you and I, we, we spend the money to make sure that we’re doing it good. Mm-hmm. And so that’s where I get back to that fairness thing. It doesn’t sound fair that I’m gonna charge you $10,000 and somebody else can charge you $6,000. Mm-hmm. That doesn’t sound fair at first. 10 years later, you’re gonna see- Mm-hmm. why it’s fair. Yeah. You’re gonna see why we do that. Yep. Not just for professionalism and communication, but for the innate, uh, the in- inherent ability to just care for what we’re doing right now for the people we do it for. Long-term performance. Long term. Yeah. It’s a commitment. Yeah. So, that’s the brand at Dirt Rock. That’s the brand we’re building is quality. Mm-hmm. um, do it right, do it as fast as you possibly can, as long as conditions are met- Yeah. it’s safe- Yeah. and it’s accurate. We’re gonna do it as fast as we can if it’s safe and if it’s accurate. Yeah. If one of those 2 conditions don’t match, then we slow it down, we stop the process. Talk to me about, um, equipment, because that’s gotta be the biggest overhead for everything that you’ve got, right? Dude, they don’t even let me buy the equipment. I try to hop in a dozer or something. Dude, I’ll mess it up so fast. Yeah. I love the equipment. I have grown up, um, seeing equipment like this and always wanting to drive it and stuff like that. So it’s l- it’s great to be a part of it. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, excavation, you gotta be kinda crazy to get into it. Mm-hmm. You’re the first person on site. You’ve got millions of dollars of investment sitting on that site. Mm-hmm. Um, you’re not getting paid. In commercial, you’re not getting paid for 45 days, 60 days. In some cases, personally, 90 days. 99 days. Yeah, yeah. Um, and your equipment’sYou go out there, you do your job, you take the equipment off the job site, you still don’t even get paid for, it’s called retainage. Mm-hmm. The bank holds onto 10% of the revenue for that contract until the end, till the whole thing is built. Mm-hmm. So you’re the first to come on, you’re one of the heaviest investors on this job- Mm-hmm. and you don’t get paid fully until the very end. Yeah, you’re the last one to get all your money. But see, I look at that as a challenge. Mm-hmm. Same the way I look at everything else when it just looks crazy. I look at it as, all right, this business is high entry. Mm-hmm. You’re not gonna just have Joe Blow coming into this business, spending 7 figures on equipment- No. with a chance that he’s gonna make it. I see a lot of inheritance, I see a lot of pass-down companies. Mm-hmm. Um, or a lot of capital companies that have bought into the business- Mm-hmm. and now they’re huge. And there’s, of course, some of those stories that I love to hear about that are organic. Mm-hmm. They started from the bottom, they did it, and now they’re, you know- Mm-hmm. an $800 million excavation company. Mm-hmm. And so tho- such a respect for that. But there’s a lot of just, there’s a lot of hand-me-down businesses in this business. Not everybody can do what me and my partners have done. Yeah. So it makes me proud. It’s a high-entry business. Mm-hmm. Low competitiveness. Now, my estimator, my chief estimator will probably disagree with me on this, because I, I think it’s a low competition business. But, you know, we’ve already done 200 bids this year, um, a quarter of a billion dollars in bids, and our win rate’s a little slower than it normally would be. We’re in a slow year, right? So, but overall, my vision is that, and what I understand about this business is that it’s low competition, it’s high entry- Mm-hmm. it’s hard to get into. So I’m gonna come in here and I’m gonna, I’m gonna set up shop. Mm-hmm. And we’re gonna get our branding and our money flow down. We’re gonna, we’re gonna build a quality brand. Eventually, the business is gonna flow with that momentum- Right. and we’re gonna be, we’re gonna win big. Mm-hmm. And, um, it’s also a hobby, though. You know? I actually really enjoy it. Yeah. So I’ve never really had the m- Security, I, I, it was okay, it was cool. Yeah. But it was a means of a livelihood for me. Mm-hmm. I actually love playing in the dirt. That’s cool. And I wish they would let me play more. ‘Cause, uh, you know, as much as I could probably just force my will on people and say, “Get out of the dozer,” it’s not good for the business. Not good for the business. Not at all. You know they get those, uh, those play times where they sell, uhAnd this could be something for you guys on the side too, but they got these deals where they go to auctions or whatever, and it’s like they’ll give you 30 minutes and a big piece of equipment where you can just go play in this one area that’s always been just kind of turned over, just so people can drive it and lift up dirt and do whatever, so people can feel like they’ve, you know, played with the big toys, the Tonka trucks and stuff that they had when they were kids, you know? SoI could do that. I could do that. Mm-hmm. But I’m, like, way more extreme than that. I’m thinking, like, killdozer neighborhoods, dude. Uh-huh. Like, let’s, let’s erect neighborhoods and let people destroy ’em with bulldozers. There it is. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just have a huge sandbox- Mm-hmm. full of stuff, like a rec room, dude. Mm-hmm. Just going in there andOh, yeah, a rec room. There we go. I got you. Yeah, “I’m pushing this building over. “Yeah. That’s what I feel. Yeah. Like, I’m, I’m extreme in that. But it still is pretty cool just to see, you know, like, one of our operators, you know, they, they can go out there and put this 50 to 80,000-pound machine on the dirt- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they can run the blades so closely over the dirt that you could grab a quarter- Mm-hmm. but you’re not grabbing dirt. Yeah. That’s talent to me, man. Yeah, it’s crazy. Yeah, I’ve seen those competitions of guys doing all that stuff, and it’s like flipping stuff into different whatever, andOh, a huge success story, a kid I grew up with, he’s down in Austin. Mm-hmm. Scale his company, a huge, um, in 5 years. Mm-hmm. He just, he, he did that competition where they, they bring in all the best operators. Uh-huh. And they’re doing different things, demoing stuff- Mm-hmm. loading stuff, production competitions- Mm-hmm. and they won it. Mm-hmm. Um, and I was just so happy for him. That was before I even got into dirt. Mm-hmm. And I remember that had an impact on me. Mm-hmm. And maybe we can get him one day at this show, but, ’cause he’s got- Yeah. stories to tell for days. Yeah. But, um, I remember seeing that and having an impact. So I know it’s a hobby for me, this whole thing. It’s, it’s a play, it’s- Yeah. it’s a, it’s play time for me. Well, speaking of hobbies, do you have any hobbies now, or is everything just completely 100% invested into the, into the company? Uh, I play golf. Okay. Uh, but I would, I would think that a hobby is enjoyable. find myself competing too much- Yeah. uh, with myself- Yeah. in golf. Yeah. You know, so I’m too competitive there. think the biggest joy in my life is, is the kids. Okay. It is the kids. And it’s also the biggest pride in my life, is seeing the kids interact with something that I’ve built. Mm-hmm. Like the business or this or that. Mm-hmm. Right? They’re doing something that I feel like I was a part of. Okay. When w- when Riley invests that little bit in Bitcoin, uh, uh, you know? Mm-hmm. When w- when Holden, he, when he comes in and he’s doing takeoffs at the shop, and he’s learning how to, how to look at plans and civil plans. Dude, that just- Mm-hmm. I got, and I got Ricky over here selling deals, man- Mm-hmm. for my business. Yeah. That’s the pride and joy of my life. Mm-hmm. And that is, um, that’s my Ferrari. That’s my Lamborghini, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, that’s what makes my life worth it. Business is fun, all that, it’s cool. Mm-hmm. But it’s too stressful to consider a hobby or h- or consider fun. Right. But when I get to see them interact with something- Mm-hmm. that I feel like I’ve, uh, I have a part of, there’s nothing, nothing that takes that. That’s- We’re gonna have to take the, uh, sticks out on the course. Dude, let’s go. All right. Have to make that happen. How competitive are you? I gotta figure that out. I mean, I still am conscious of, like, I don’t wanna wear too good a designer clothes out there because then people-have high expectations. So I’m there. But I’m also, like, I hit the ball and I can generally tell you where it’s gonna go- Uh-huh. generally. Um, like within a, I don’t know, 30 degree. Yeah. So when I hit the ball, I know it’s gonna, it’s gonna get, get up there somewhere. Okay. So it’s fun for me. Okay, good. But, um, it’s not like to the point where I’m, I got a handicap or anything. Okay. You know? What about you? Uh, we’ll- Discuss that later on. That’s off record. I don’t want anybody out there to mess up my bets and stuff when we go out on the course, but- Yeah, you gotta keep it, keep it strategic. Yeah. Uh, but I do have a client called XGolf. They, uh, we jump up there every, uh, Monday or, or, or Thursdays, and we play, uh, golf on a sim, so you have to come up there and play with us sometimes. Yeah, I got some friends at XGolf. I’m in, man. Yeah, come on in. Um, that’ll be really fun. Man, I tell you what, honestly, like, this has been, you know, kinda eye open- eye opening for me too, to kinda hear a little bit more about your business, but more about you as a human. Um, I think that’s the real crux behind the reason we deal with the people that we deal with, is seeing who they are as a person. So, man, proud of your journey, proud of the things that you’ve done. And, uh, everything else you got left to, to dig into as well. So, um, this is just the start. Hopefully we’ll get some butterflies along the way. This was fun, man. This was fun, and a learning, uh, a learning experience. Mm-hmm. Do you have anything you wanna say to the audience before we leave, where they can find you? You can, uh, you can see my, my latest project at DirtRockDallas. com. If you need a dirt moved, you know, a pool dug, you can call us for that. Um, but mainly if you, uh, if you’re in the Rockwall area and you are interested in business, um, we have the Rockwall Technology Group. Come on over, talk to us. We’re over there off of 30. Got a flashing light bulb sign, probably the only one in Rockwall-that’s like that. Come on in and meet us, man. Come in and talk to us. We wanna, we wanna build. We wanna grow. Very cool. Well, everybody, until next time, that was The Blueprint.