Episode 66 – Jason Wilson

Find what your therapy is. Mm-hmm. What helps you heal, what helps you get through- Yeah. the BS of life, those down times, things like that. Mm-hmm. And share it. Yeah. Because you never know the one life you might impact. And even if barbecue or cooking isn’t your therapy, it might lead you on that journey to find it. There’s such a stigma. Uh, it’s getting better, but around mental health, especially with men. You know, we’re, we’re machismo. We’re bravado- Yeah. you know. We don’t talk about our feelings, F our feelings, you know? Yeah. Sometimes you lose sight of serving others like we did in the military. Mm-hmm. Because that’s what we’re doing. We’re serving our nation. We’re serving the people of our great nation. Right. You lose that aspect. And so when it comes to the food journey and you realize I’m still serving, just at a different capacity. Mm. And it’s making people smile and happy for the most part. Unless you screw it up. Screw it up. Yeah. Unless you burn it. Then you gotta go to Taco Bell or whatever. Every single brisket, I’m nervous. I’m more nervous than running missions. Most of my recipes you see me post, I cook to my wife’s liking. Keeps her happy, keeps me happy, keeps the house happy, right? Yeah. everybody. Welcome back to The Blueprint. Today, I’ve got Jason Wilson with Meat Therapy, a superstar barbecue phenom, father, husband, grandfather, veteran. I mean, what else has this guy got? Uh, he’s gonna teach us a little bit about some BBQ today and then actually tell us what’s at the heart of it. So stay tuned and, uh, find out a little bit more about this guy. And if you guys could do me a favor, just make sure that you, uh, hit that subscribe button on the bottom. That’s really gonna help us to, uh, get a few more of these stories out there, man. I just sharewant to share the stories and, and, uh, want to make sure you see them when they come up. So appreciate you. Jason- Raymond. thank you for coming on the show, buddy. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah. Appreciate you. Yeah, we’ve met a few times- Yup. you know, leading up to this and, uh, uh, have a few friends that have kind of crossed path as well. So really, really excited to have you on here because you have such a unique story. Um, but you have so many things and they allYou know, a lot of people live these separate lives of I do this and I also do this and I also do this, but everything of yours is kind of braided into one and turned into this one story that’s out of everything, right? It really has. It’s, uh, y- you know, it’s funny when you reflect back on what got you to the moment right here sitting in the chair next to you and, and everything that’s gone into that and kind of curated this, this perfect union. Um, you know, life is life. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it’s incredible. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the relationships that’s formed and, um, brought us together today, today. Mm-hmm. So appreciate you. Yeah, 100%. So let’s give a two, three, four minute synopsis on what Meat Therapy is, which is kind of the reason everybody knows your name. Yeah, uh, Meat Therapy isIt’s a lot of things. Um, first and foremost it, it’s my therapy. Um, it’s getting outside and, and cooking and, and doing some good barbecue up for my friends and family. Uh, it’s therapy for me. Mm-hmm. Um, I didn’t really realize that until like 2019. Mm-hmm. Um, had, uh, my father-in-law and some of my team members where I work up at the hospital like, “Oh, you need to start a food blog. “I have no idea how to start a food blog, you know? I didn’t know that that stuff existed- Yeah. or social media or anything like that. And, uh, team member was like, “Oh, you need to start an Instagram page. “Mm-hmm. Like, oh, I got one. I just use little filters. Mm-hmm. Make the pictures of my kids look better to put on Facebook and share with my family, you know? So they can see what the family’s up to. Well, she grabs my phone, starts building out a, a page and she goes, “All right, what do you want to call it? “And man, it just likeMy whole cooking journey flashed before my eyes, you know? I was like, this has truly been this therapeutic journey for me. “Mm-hmm. And I said, “You know what? I want to call it Meat Therapy. “Yeah. And she goesAnd she kind of giggled because you can take it from a 12 year old mindset, right? And there’s so many good jokes- Yeah. that come out of the name Meat Therapy, but it’s truly what it, um, was for me and, and that was like my aha moment. Yeah. And looking back, um, you know, when I was transitioning out of the military in 2009, I had a, a pretty rough transition. And, um, barbecue had always kind of been part of my life through my dad and his friends and just growing up. Mm. And I was out there cooking and, but not really sharing it with anybody. And, uh, I was in a, in a hole. Mm-hmm. You know, this dark sort of hole, but I had all this meat. And so kind of started inviting people back in and, and seeing just that smile it brought about on people when they took that bite like, “Oh, this is good. “It- Mm-hmm. I don’t know, it did something for me. Yeah. Where it started kind of lifting me up out of that dark hole and, uh, from thereAnd then looking back, other stressors in life, um, I noticed and realized I was outside cooking more. Mm-hmm. man, this really is therapy for me. This has been part of my healing journey from that standpoint. Then, uh, you know, the world shut down in 2020 with COVID. Mm-hmm. And I had just started the social media page and things like that. But I work in a hospital and during that time it was tough working like 6 days a week, 18 hour shifts up there. That one day off, um, I was out in the backyard cooking. If any of my leadership sees this, I’m sorry, but yes, I was sneaking in good home-barbecue in the back door when no food from the outside-was supposed to come in. But I was helping feed all the differentMy team, different teams across the hospital- Mm-hmm. on those days off and things like that. And, umyou know, from there, not really knowing the impact of social media, uh, started building relationships. And, um, just all these different opportunities kept coming our way and doingUh, we started our classes. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause we call them therapy sessions. Yeah. We own a- a, uh, a historic home in Waxahachie. Yep. And it’s on the National Register of Historic Places. My wife calls it her therapy. Mm-hmm. Um, her therapy is way more expensive than my therapy. I don’t care how expensive brisket prices get out there. Yeah. But, you know, it’s 100 and- about to be 126 years old home. Okay. And, uh, weHer hairdresser actually came up with the idea. Was like, “Hey, does Jason teach barbecue? “Mm-hmm. She goes, “No, but he loves to educate. “Mm. And so, um, it was her husband andOr the hairdresser’s husband, his 2 brothers, and their dad. And they hadn’t really got to see their dad much just ’cause he was kinda high risk and they were just trying to be safe and, and seeing them for 6 hours in our backyard, uh, for our first ever therapy session was therapy. Like, I was getting to share that therapy that- His gift. Yeah. That IThat has helped me- Yeah. and seeing an impact with them. The next class, uh, it was a guy had flown his buddy in for it from California. Hmm. Had just lost his wife, um, hisHad a 4monthold daughter. And then the other couple, they, their son hadWasHis Dallas PD had gotten hit in like a routine traffic stop and so he was out and they came in and just seeing, you know, the guy’s buddy who’d just lost his wife- Mm-hmm. just perk up and, and then like, “I hadn’t felt normal in 4 months. Today was the day. Thank you. “Wow. And so getting to do that with, um, uh, people in our backyard and share that experience and, and share what my therapy is, uh, with others has been a true blessing. Yeah. Um, and I, I tell everyone like, you know, “Find what your therapy is. “Mm-hmm. What helps you heal, what helps- Yeah. you get through the BS of life, those down times, things like that. Mm-hmm. And share it. Yeah. Because you never know that one life you might impact. And even if barbecue or cooking isn’t your therapy, it might lead you on that journey to find it. Mm-hmm. If it’s quilting, or needle point, or whatever it is- Mm-hmm. it doesn’t matter. Yeah. Just find that thing that- Mm-hmm. helps you, you know? Yeah. So. Well, that’s really cool, you know, because you’ve, you’ve basically taken a, a pastime for everyone, a good time pastime or relaxation moment and turned it into, “Hey, let’s, let’s take a little bit of time to not only enjoy this, but let’s also talk for a second. “Yes. “And, uh, find out a little bit more about, you know, what really ails us or, or, um, talk about the things when we have, you know, a cold beer in our hand or a, or a glass of drink in our hand. “You know what I mean? And, and, uh, just sit down and, and, and be able to self-regulate. Yes. You know? And, and find- Openly express, be vulnerable. Right. Don’t be scared to be vulnerable. I think there’s such a stigma. Uh, it’s getting better, but around mental health, especially with men. Mm-hmm. You know, we’re, we’re machismo. We’re bravado. Yeah. You know? We don’t talk about our feelings, F our feelings, you know? Yeah. Uh, but no, we need to talk about that stuff- Yeah. and get it out there and talk with others about it and share. And, and, you know, ’cause you’re not alone in that journey and- Mm-hmm. you know, connect with someone that may have been in the same struggle as you’ve been in. Right. And like, “Oh, really? So what, what’s helped you? “Yeah. And learn and grow with each other along that journey. Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s good. Like, e- even our classes may do, uh, a big group and there might been some cor- some sort of tripe by the time that the group’s booked and get there. Well, they all still show up. And all of a sudden they’re engaged in just heavy conversation aside. So now, if you come to our class, part of the intro is, “You know what? There’s been some really awesome things that’s happened in this backyard within this home. really awesome things that’s happened in this backyard within this home. If you’re engaged in just a- a incredible conversation, a healing conversation, a life conversation, and I make the announcement we’re moving on to the next step or something, throw your finger up. “Mm-hmm. “Do not drop where you’re at. Continue that conversation. The show still goes on. “Mm-hmm. “I’ll do your process for you. Do not leave that conversation. “So, and we’ve had that happen a lot. Find a breakthrough, stick with the breakthrough, and a needle cut itself over here in a second. Oh, absolutely. Uh, we need to deal with what we’re dealing with. Yep. Well, that’s cool. Well, w- the- the nice thing about this is that you’ve gone through and found, you know, some serious ways to capture people’s, um, emotional outlets, you know? And so whether taking a good thing and- and bringing a bad thing to it, and sometimes they- they both s- cure themselves, right? So let’s talk about how you got to where you began, you know, like, where- where’s Jason from? Where were you born? Oh, uh, I was born in Azle. Okay. Um, lived out there, uh, little trailer. I think it was single wide. I really don’t remember much, but really my, I feel like my childhood started, uh, on Lake Worth Lake. Mm-hmm. My mom and dad bought a little house out there in ’85. And it was a little, I think maybe 900 square foot house. Uh, I had 2 younger brothers. And, uh, man, we just, uh, did it up. Mm-hmm. Um, it kind of became the hub, uh, for, um, summer parties and- Mm-hmm. fishing and dad, you know- You guys are actually on the lake? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. We hadI remember dad had brought a big crane in. They dredged it all out. Mm-hmm. It was- it was- it was pretty nasty out there- Mm-hmm. in the beginning. Added some acres. We ended up having about 2 acres right there on Lake Worth Lake. Mm. And, uh, you know, there were some good times had, uh, up until, I guess, 5th, 6th grade, 5th grade. Uh, then my mom went on vacation to Las Vegas- Mm-hmm. and decided she didn’t want to be a mom anymore, so she didn’t come home. Mm. So there’s my dad with me and my 2 younger brothers and just all the struggles that, you know, kind of come along with that. Yeah. And h- he used construction and so, uh, you know, the party still went on during the summer and things like that but- How old were you when this happened? I was in 5th going into 6th grade, something like that. It was- Uh, 11, 12? Yeah. Something like that, yep. Mm-hmm. 11, 12 yearsUm, and that’s where I kind of s- had to learn how to cook- Mm-hmm. was during that time ’cause he was gone and working. Yeah. You know, construction’s ungodly hours. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so it was, we did learn to hunt. Mm-hmm. Whatever was in the cabinet, he’d toss it together just so we could eat some things and whatnot but- Fried bologna sandwich, baby. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Uh, big old pot of beans, make that bad boy last about 5 days. You can do some incredible things with a big pot of pinto beans. Yeah. Um, wasn’t the best smelling house with a bunch of dudes and a big pot of beans. But, you know, we- we got to eat. Yes. So um, yeah, so kind of started there and, uh, went to Azle High School. Mm-hmm. From there, uh, we stayed in Azle just ’cause the district that we would have been in, the school district, ’cause would have been Fort Worth- Mm-hmm. wasn’t a good, um, school system. Mm-hmm. And so we made it out to Azle every day for school and, uhWere you involved in any sports or? Played football. Okay. Yeah, played football. There was about a year there, moved to Colorado. Mm-hmm. Uh, midway through my freshman year, through midway of my sophomore year. Mm-hmm. Um, my uncle, they bought a ski shop- Mm-hmm. in Leadville, Colorado when I was in the 6th grade. Mm-hmm. And our first trip up there was 7th grade, fell in love with Colorado. Mm-hmm. Then we got our dad up there freshman year and he loved it too. Mm-hmm. So we moved. Mm-hmm. Uh, then my mom pulled some stuff in court down here and ended up having to come back. But, uh, yeah, you know, you leave for a year, come back, you just slide right back in where you’re at and- Mm-hmm. you know, thankfully this was in the ’90s and all the high school things that you did isn’t recorded and- 100%. Yeah. like it is now. Like you can’t do anything with them these days. Yeah, 100%. Um, and then, uh, became a young father. Mm-hmm. Uh, 18. Okay. Uh, yeah, so, um, then- You got like a 30-year-old now. Close to it. Yeah. 26. Oh. I have a 26-year-old son, 24-year-old son, 9yearold daughter. Hit the reset button on life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And a, uh, my granddaughter just turned 2. That’s awesome. And, uh, second one’s on the way. That’s awesome. I know. So it’s funny. I joke around about hitting the reset button on life and how my daughter’s closer to age to my granddaughter than she is to her daugh- her brothers. But, you know, God works in mysterious ways. Yeah. Here we are. Yeah. Uh, living it. Um- So you were, were you gonna be a football superstar? What were you? Oh, no, no. Uh, really didn’t know what I-didn’t know what I was gonna do. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, when you become a, a dad at 18- Mm-hmm. all the things you thought- Yeah. which really, like, I loved art. I was pretty good- Mm-hmm. at drawing and- Yep. and my aunt was really pushing me to like graphic design, something like that. Mm-hmm. But, you know, whenever, uh, was it, “Everybody has a plan till they get punched in the mouth. “Yeah, Tyson. Yeah. Uh, got punched in that mouth, and so I adjusted. So went into, uh, running concrete pump trucks- Mm-hmm. um, mowing yards, doing anything I could just to- Mm-hmm. Make ends meet. Yeah, make ends meet. Um, got married. Got divorced in 2003. Concrete. Around then, well, kept kinda going. Um, 2004 or so, concrete and construction started tanking. I was working for one company, DFW area. They ended up having to close doors and everything else. Mm-hmm. And it just wasn’t working out and, uh, man, I didn’t know what else to do. You’re like 22, 23 at this time? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I was 23 going on 24. My middle brother, James, he had gone into the military. He went in the army and, um, he was part of the first invasion- Mm-hmm. in Iraq. He had come home and we were both kind of struggling, trying to figure out how to make money and everything else. And so I went and I called a recruiter. I called, well, I, I called Air Force first. Mm-hmm. I was like, “I have to go do the Air Force. “You know, I wasn’t going into the military to be all at home. I, I had kids I needed to take care of and- Mm-hmm. the insurance needed to provide, things like that. And I remember the recruiter, first question he asked was, “Well, how’s your credit? “I was like, “Well, I just went through a divorce, you know. “So he said, “Well, you know what? Get that cleaned up and call us back. “I said,Called the army. Mm-hmm. Same thing, first question. “Well, how’s your credit? “Same thing. “I just went through a divorce, you know. It’s not that great. “He’s like, “Oh, we can work with that. “And, uh, man, they were over that afternoon, did a quick little, uh, test and- Mm-hmm. you know, I’m not saying I’m smart, but I, I can- You did all right. make my way through a test. Yeah. I swear it was like a month later, I was gone. I went, “Oh, shit. What did I do? “What does your credit have to do with being accepted into the military? For your, uh, security clearances. Okay. And so, um, man, I was, February of 2005- Mm-hmm. I was headed to basic. Okay. And, uh, did all that good stuff and, um, did a tour in Baghdad, Iraq. Boots on the ground? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we were, uh, I was lead gunner for a personal security detail. Okay. And, uh, we got to do some pretty cool stuff. Got to roll with some folks that were pretty cool. Mm-hmm. Um, got to do, got to do. Um, but, you know, I, just that being outside the wire day in and day out and whatnot, it just, it, I guess it took a, a, a toll on you. Mm-hmm. Body and mind and things like that. And so, uh, when I got out in 2009, I didn’t have that anymore. was lost. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that’s where I just kind of spiraled down. So you were, you were really doing really well while you were in the military? Were you having any ups and downs while you were there or was it- I think whenever we got back, I started having- Just when you got back? Yeah. Okay. Like after I get back, because, and, you know, I’ve been through a lot of different things since then just to work on myself and- Yeah. um, like right now, even now, like, I’m, what, 20 years- Mm-hmm. passed, still dealing with things. And, uh, we created this really great relationship with this, uh, organization called Boot Campaign. Mm-hmm. And they, we’ve been doing stuff with them since, I don’t know, 2020, 2021. Mm-hmm. And they have 2 programs, one being a health and wellness program for veterans. and, and so last year I finally broke down. Mm-hmm. Like I was back spiraling. I’d lost my youngest brother, um, he succumbed to his demons, and then less than 3 months later, I lost my uncle, um, who was like a father figure to me. And apparently I just didn’t have the coping skills, you know? Mm-hmm. And so I went back to how I used to cope with just doing dumb things. Mm-hmm. You know, and risks, and, and whatnot and, uh, and I think I was on the verge of losing my family. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, my wife wasn’t happy with me. She was on the verge and, you know, I got the daughter, I was like, “Oh, man. “So I reached out to Boot Campaign, they accepted me into the health and wellness program. I’m still in it. Mm-hmm. Uh, doing what I need to do to be better, to care for myself first and then my family. Mm-hmm. And be the man, husband, father, grandfather that they deserve. There’s a lot of guys that are out there feeling this exact same thing that you’ve gone through, right? Oh, yeah. And again, to get them into your program is great. You know, just to kind of, you know, crack the surface on things that they need to start dealing with, let alone getting into a, something like Boot Campaign, right? Um, relating to those guys, um, talking of their story, you know, breaking down, you’reA lot of people feel like, first off, that’s why I asked the question when you’re in the military and you’re over there, are you distracted so much while you’re there that you’re not dealing with the things that you’re seeing and doing? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And so you’re just full throttle the entire time. Oh, yeah. Not, not concerned. You see these things happen, you do these things, you actively are engaging in certain situations and it’s onto the next and onto the next- Oh, yeah. so there’s no dwelling time. No, you just shove it down. Yeah. Keep it moving. And you get back over here and it’s like, “Am I”What, uh, what are, what are you questioning? The things that I did or what’s my value? All of it. Mm-hmm. What I did, what I saw, what you went through, get here and, and you have idle hands. You know, you’re notIt’s a rush to send rounds down range, you know? And, and stop a potential threat. Mm-hmm. Things like that. Mm-hmm. Get over here, get back home, you lose that rush, but you’re still wired. Yeah. primordial brain, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and so, um, you start seeking out thrills and things to recreate that rush and you can’t. Mm-hmm. Um, so you’re just diving in risky behaviors to try to, to get it going and, and it doesn’t quite, uh, lend itself to a good civilian life. There’s a dopamine rush mixed with a, an outlet. Oh, yeah. You know, that combination, that cocktail of, um, those 2 pieces were allow- allowed you to ha- handle that then. Yeah. Right? Coming back, no outlet, no dopamine rush, you’re filling the void. Yeah, doing that and then the void, you know, you’re not sleeping ’cause when you sleep, you’re, you’re seeing or you’re remembering. Reliving. You’re having the night terrors and things like that and, um, so you don’t wanna sleep, you know? The darkness is your enemy. You just kind of find things and so, um, I think that’s where barbecue for me, or say barbecue, cooking- Cooking. with others really kind of, uh, it didn’t give meIt gave me a different type of, feel good. Mm-hmm. Different kind of dopamine dump. Mm-hmm. Because it was making people happy- Mm-hmm. make them smile and, and, uh, you know, whenever we fast-forward to starting social media and started being kind of open about what meat therapy is and, and why I started it and how it helps me- Mm-hmm. from that social media presence and then start getting messages, DMs, like, “Oh, it’s, it’s a therapy for me too,” and it’s connected me with other military active duty and veterans across the nation- Mm-hmm. and we’ve had conversations of, “Hey, you know, how you doing? “You know, wecreated great relationships with them. Mm-hmm. them along their journey and, “Hey, I got some resources, how can I help you? “And- Mm-hmm. things like that, so. What do you think it is about smoking and, well, s- on a smokerNot just smoking, but- Yeahcooking, cooking on a smoker, right? Mm-hmm. That, um, allows people to kind of tear the walls down for a minute. I mean, it’s, it is very, uh, say therapeutic to take on your word, but it is very relaxing to get out there and smell the smoke in your downtime and you’ve got X amount of hours dedicated to this thing and there’s a reward at the end. Yeah. What do you think is, is the common goal for, or the common reasoning for people to do this? I think, well, first, it starts before even lighting that fire, right? It starts with whatever cut you’ve decided to go with for that day- Mm-hmm. to invest X amount of hours. I mean, you may be investing 14, 16 hours of your day- Right. Mm-hmm. into something. But it starts before that, thegetting, like, trimming a brisket. Mm-hmm. I love trimming brisket. Mm-hmm. I love it. I love it. Um, it, it takes your mind away from- Mm-hmm. everything and it, and puts you in a sole focus. Mm-hmm. And you’re like, “All right, we want to make sure it’s trimmed this way, it’s rounded, maximize airflow,” all that good stuff. Then you light the fire, and now you’re going into fire management. And, and there’s just something about, I mean, the caveman aspect, right? Mm-hmm. Like, it’s ingrained into somewhere- Mm-hmm. way back here. Like, fire, oh. Yeah, yeah. And smoke and meat. Yeah. And it just takes you back. And, uh, start that process. And then I think, you know, the cooking journey throughout that day of whatever you’re cooking, uh, the brisket, the pork chop, whatever it might be, but then that end reward. Mm-hmm. Like, you’re getting to still serve someone. Mm-hmm. Last night I did a big old beautiful tri-tip. I got to serve my wife. She loves tri-tip. You know, uh, you lose that, sometimes you lose sight of serving others, like we did in the military. Mm-hmm. Because that’s what we’re doing. We’re serving our nation. We’re serving the people of our great nation. And you lose that, um, aspect. And so when it comes to the food journey and you realize, “I’m still serving, just at a different capacity. “Hm. And it’s making people smile and happy for the most part. Unless you screw it up. Screw it up. Yeah. Unless you burn it. You got to go to Taco Bell or whatever. But- Yeah. I, I really think it, it gives you that, that focus throughout that process. The, the what-ifs, the mystery. Like, being in Baghdad. Mm-hmm. Is that bag of trash gonna blow up or not? IsAre we gonna lose somebody there? Are we gonnaThose are the what-ifs there. What if we do this, da-da-da? Mm-hmm. You take that and you, you don’t have that mystery. While in cooking, you still have that my- You know, you regain that mystery behind it. Mm-hmm. “Well, if I put this log on, how big is my temp gonna spike from there? “Mm-hmm. “Oh, let’s go ahead and shave it down a little bit. “Mm-hmm. And kind of negotiate. “Well, you know, it’s a little colder today. How much fuel am I gonna blow through today? “Mm-hmm. You still get some of that mystery aspect. Keeps you on your toes, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, then, then you slice it. Yeah. Then you shred it. Mm-hmm. pray to the barbecue gods that you didn’t F it up and- And it brings a smile on some folks’ faces. Yeah. And, and, 9 times out of ten it does. It’s funny how everybody kind of gathers around as they- Oh, yeah. As, as the first cuts start making. Uh-huh. Everybody’s, like, waiting for you to go, “All right. “You flip it over, pass it on your knife or whatever. And everybody’s likeYou know, it’s like fish when you throw crumbs in the water, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Start hitting. Yeah, theYou go to slice up brisket, the first ones, and evenLike, I’ve done a lot. Like, I’m notI’m a backyard guy through and through. Yes, we do events now where I’m doing more. Mm-hmm. But every single brisket, I’m nervous. Yeah. I, I’ve done it. The feel is perfect. The seasoning looked great. The temps were great. Mm-hmm. Like, everything says this should be a great product. Right. Um, but every time I slice it, I’m going, “I’m nervous. Oh, I’m nervous. “I’m more nervous than running missions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Um, ’cause people want to see that beautiful Texas brisket. Yeah. You know? And things like that, so. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s funny. Like, I, I’d love to kind of dig into some standardized questions for barbecue, right? Okay. And then once we get through that, and then we talk about, like, the taste and everything that comes out of it, jump back into this military aspect and how people can get involved in that. So stay tuned if you’re, you’re waiting for me to jump back into more of that. I just want to tackle a few things, ’cause he said some things here about, that I’m super interested in. Sorry. Um, you said, “I love trimming a brisket. “So many different ways I’ve heard to trim a bis- br- a biscuit. Trim a brisket. And, uh, you know, when it comes down to it, it- it’s- some people say leave a lot more fat on, and some people say trim it down to an 8th inch, and some people say, “I round this significantly off,” and some people are like, “I don’t want to waste meat. “Mm-hmm. So, what’s your approach that, that you should get so excited about? Uh, my approach is trim it however you want to. Like, if you’re one to maximize volume, leave it all on there. Yeah. I- I have a buddy that, he’s done a couple where he hasn’t trimmed it at all. Mm-hmm. He’s taken it out of the bag, wiped it down, seasoned it, and cooked it. Cool. Yeah. You know? ItI feel like trimming brisket, people get really justI don’t want to say scared. Mm-hmm. But anxious over- Mm-hmm. trimming and doing a brisket, and that’sIt’s not that hard. I- I want to be, like, a true artist with this craft. Mm-hmm. And so I trim pretty aggressively- Mm-hmm. uh, for the most part. Um, I’ll try, if I can, freeze it for about an hour, get it super cold just so I can make the shapes and dimensions easier. I’ll, uh, wasteI don’t waste. Uh, I’ll trim aggressively so I have a lot on the side, but also I have a grinder. Mm-hmm. So we’ll grind the trimmings up, um, for our ground burger meat. Mm-hmm. ground brisket. Yeah, really good. Works great. Yeah. Um, use the fat that I take off for the, uh, for my tallow. Things like that. Um, but I- I go into it trying to just make itI want it to look pretty. Mm-hmm. Um, because when it’s pretty like that, it’s gonna cook more even for me. Mm-hmm. Uh, so it’s rounded all the way through for the most part, pretty flat. Um, there are times that I won’t take it down as much as I wanted to just because I know I’ve got, like, a big event coming. Mm-hmm. And we’re just running chop. Mm-hmm. Like if- if we’re running chopLeave some fat? Yeah, we’ll leave some fat in there. Won’t be as aggressive because it’s all going to get rehydrated anyway- Yeah. the way I’ll cook chop versus slice. Mm-hmm. Um, slice, I’m- I’m trying to trim it down that every single slice is edible. Mm-hmm. Even to the very end of the flat. Mm-hmm. That we’re not wasting anything, and everybody gets something. Mm-hmm. So are you a one8th when you get, or are youWould you- f- if you’re doing it the way you would want to do it, how much fat are you leaving on the bottom? And let’s say for slice. Uh, an 8th to two and a quarter. Okay. Yeah. And that’s, and that’s just all across the bottom, cutting the tips off- Mm-hmm. rounding, and it has, like, that little flap inside that has like fat tucked up inside of there? Yeah, your mohawk. Are you trimming out of that? I’m taking that mohawk out. Okay. Um, and the way, whenever you, for the most part, when you take that mohawk down, the, you know, ’cause if you pull it up, it legit looks like a brisket has that mohawk up there. Mm-hmm. Uh, you can leave it on. As your cooking process happens, it’s going to kind of dry up, and it’ll start sticking up, and it’ll actually kind of look like this crazy-looking mohawk or comb-over or something like that. Mm-hmm. Um, I do take that off. I usually take it off even when I’m running chop. Mm-hmm. Um, just because you do got that big fat layer in there in between that point and flat. Mm-hmm. That you can actually get it down a little bit more and shave it out- Mm-hmm. uh, to where you have a better shot at rendering it more. Mm-hmm. Are you aand I probably know the answer to this, but are you a, um, butcher paper or are you a, uh, foil guy? Butcher paper. Butcher paper. Butcher paper. Unless forget that I’m out of butcher paper- Mm-hmm. then I’m nothing. Mm-hmm. I will just go until it’s about 198, 197, 198 degrees, so a little less than what you normally would. Mm-hmm. And then I’ll just pull it and wrap it super tight in foil. Okay. Um, to finish out that process. Bring it up, that way I’m not sacrificing the bark as much. Mm-hmm. Um, that’s happened a few times just ’cause, you know, you got a real job, you have meet therapy, you got family. Yep. Mm-hmm. Sometimes I miss things on my grocery shopping. Mm-hmm. And so I- I’ve, I’ve ran out of butcher paper a couple times and- Okay. don’t realize it till it’s time to go wrap. Yeah. You’re all excited, like, “Oh, it’s b- we’re ready. “Yeah. You’re like, “Oh, no we’re not. “”Okay, we’re just gonna keep rolling like this. “And soTell me the difference between butcher paper and foil and, and do’s and don’ts for each one of those things. Uh, butcher paper isSo, you wanna use the pink butcher paper. It’s unwaxed. It’s semi-permeable. Uh, so once you wrap in it, um, you’re still gonnaAfter meat hits, uh, 160, 165, it really stops taking on smoke. Um, all you’re doing now is kind of making sure you keep some moisture in there. Mm-hmm. Or tenderization, um, and continue working on your bark. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, you wrap after your stall, so the- the bark’s already started to dry out, so we’re not going to soften it up too much. Mm-hmm. Go in there, and, and the butcher paper’s going to allow it to continue to kind of dry out and get just that nice Texas bark that everyone loves. Mm-hmm. Um, foil, um, it’s good, it can speed up your cooking process. Okay. Um, just because you’re, you’re trapping that heat in now, where he can kind of release out of that- Butcher paper. butcher paper. Mm-hmm. Um, with the foil, too, you gotta be careful becauseAnd there’s no right or wrong way to do it. You do it however you love doing it. But with foil, you gotta be a little more careful ’cause your, your temps will jump on you faster. Mm-hmm. Because now, once you’re in, you’re-you literally trap that heat in there. Mm-hmm. Um, it can create the- the heat dis- distribution throughout that whole protein to just shoot up significantly faster. Mm-hmm. So you gotta be on it a little bit more than if you were using butcher paper. I’ve seen people use a boat technique as well. Mm-hmm. Right? Yep. So you’re, with a boat, you’re still working on your bark. Mm-hmm. You’re not getting that steaming aspect of completely, uh, wrapping in the foil. Mm-hmm. Uh, but then you’re tenderizing that flat a little bit more. Mm-hmm. And the boat technique’s great. I’ve- I’ve done it a few times, just playing around, experimenting. Mm-hmm. Holds all the juices, and you got a big- It does, yeah. you got a big mess at the end. But it’s- it’s really juicy as a brisket. It is. Yeah. It is. Um, the times I’ve done boat method, I’ll actually take a couple strips of fat off that brisket, and I’ll lay it down in there. Mm-hmm. So once it goes in, it’ll render out, and I don’t want to say it’s like a confit, but it’s kind of like a confit in there once it renders down, you get that tallow going. Mm-hmm. And it- it creates a pretty nice product. Um, it’s good, like, I don’t do true caterings. I did that back in the early 2000s, back in the 1900s. Mm-hmm. Um, but few that I’ll do are, like, bigger events. If I’m having to do a lot of briskets, I’ll do that way sometimes, just because you’re having to slice, and you’re not slicing on the board per serve, you’re putting a big pan of sliced out. Mm-hmm. So now I’ve got the tallow, and some of those rendered jui- uh, juices- Mm-hmm. from the brisket- Yeah. dumped back over, and slow down the oxydi- oxidization process. Mm-hmm. Keep it tender longer. Mm-hmm. Moist, so. That’s cool. So, even when you’re not doing it for a big group like that, if you were to cook all that and throw that fat inside that- that boat, or the foilMm-hmm. you’d save that? Oh, yeah. You’d pour it into a jar, or do something- Mm-hmm. and use it forWhat- what would you use it for outside of that? Uh, well I, like, instead of oil in the house, on the skillets and stuff, if I’m cooking and I need some oil, I’m using them for that. Oh, okay. Um, it has a higher smoke point than just your normal vegetable oil, th- and olive oil, things like that. So. And it’s got a great flavor. Um, I know, we- we did, uh, we called itIt was our first ever advanced therapy class. Mm-hmm. Back in last January, it was a 14-hour day. Mm-hmm. And it was brisket from start to finish. Mm-hmm. And somebody had mentioned something tallow, and this guy perked up, and was like, “Oh, yeah. Tallow. I use it on my skin and my beard,” and I was likeSo he became kind of the running joke. Yeah. We named him Tallow. Uh, but then after that, I, like, go down, my wife loves going to these little boutique-y places. Yeah. There’s always maybe a shelf or 2 for dudes, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I’m gonna go to the dude section, I’ll be back in about a minute and a half. Mm-hmm. Starts seeing product they’re actually usingBeard tallow. B- yeah, beef tallow-in, like, facial care and beard stuff- Yeah. and things like that. I was like, I just don’t know ifI love tallow. But- I- I don’t think I could put that on my face and in my beard. I meanYeah. I already smell like smoke half the time as it is. I was gonna say. And just meat andYeah. I don’t know if I could do that. Yeah. Uh, so I won’t be using it for that. But, you know, it’s just, it’s kind of become my oil replacement. Yeah. It’d be on brand, for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I want to try, like, doing a fat wash with it, with my bourbon and something. Okay. You know, I- I’ve seen some stuff like that. a lot of things. Just not the time. Like what would, how would that work? I’m not really sure. Okay. Not that I haveI remember I looked up, looked it up one time, and kind of saw a how-to, and I can’t recall how it was. Yeah. I’d have to find it again. It would be totallyI’d have-I’m not, like, big on going to YouTube. Yeah. I like to screw stuff up on my own. Figure it out, wreck it. Um, but I think this is one I’d have to go watch a YouTube video on. Yeah. Um, I hear a lot of people, just sticking with the basics, I hear a lot of people talk about salt and pepper only. Mm-hmm. Right? Salt and pepper only. You brought some stuff over here today. Yeah. Uh, these are a couple of your seasonings. Yeah. Main ingredient on these is salt and pepper? Coping mechanism, there’s no pepper. Okay. It’s, uh, main- it’s salt, garlic, little umami. Okay. Actually, a lot of umami. Um, it is aAnd it’s not like a- a true barbecue seasoning. It is a, “I enjoy cooking for others. “Okay. Whether it’s an indoor kitchen, outdoor kitchen, it’s a great base. It’s great as it is, or to build upon. Okay. Uh, the other one, yeah, it’s salt and pepper. Okay. Well, the question was, is that people always say salt and pepper, and then there’s a lot of orange that comes out. Yeah. And gets everywhere. Well, salt and pepper ain’t orange. So, what, what’s really going down? Yeah, I mean, just another type of salt. Okay. Lawry’s. Very seasonal. Okay. You know, it, it, that’s pretty much your standard Texas. It’s regular salt, course kosher salt. Lawry’s course black pepper. Okay. Or extra course, 60 mesh. What is the orange in there? What is that? In Lawry’s? Yeah. I think probably some of that paprika, uh, extract or paprika that’s in there, things like that. Yeah. I don’t know the full breakdown of it. Okay. Um, but my guess, paprika gives just a beautiful color. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, uh, for r- I’m excited about using these. I’ve forever used a, uh, I don’t know if this is a cuss word, but I’ve used a Salt Lick, uh, seasoning. Oh, yeah. It’s really good, they’re original. Oh, yeah. Um, and uh, my wife, although she’s only tried a few barbecue places, she’s like, “Yours is the best ever. “Right? And I’m like, just because she says that is amazing. first off-I’m stealing, I’m stealing somebody else’s seasoning- Uh-huh. and making my brisket, but at the end of the day, like it’s cool to see that, but I, it does have orange color to it. Mm-hmm. You know, and it does have a lot of spice to it, you know, and so when you go to start putting on this seasoning on your brisket, how heavy are you pouring this on? Oh, I’m dumping it on. Yeah. Yeah, it’s, I, I go heavy. Especially, and, and that’s anything, like a big protein. So your pork shoulders, your briskets, your prime rib, those big cuts, it can handle more seasoning. Yeah. You want more seasoning on there. Yeah. Versus your smaller cuts, like your pork chops, things like that, you’re gonna be, you’re not gonna season it the same way you do your brisket- Right. as far as the amount that goes on. Mm-hmm. Um, just because you have smaller surface area. Mm-hmm. And you don’t want it to be overly this or that. That, you know- Yeah. too salty or too peppery, things like that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When, um, a- and this is the way I do mine, and so you tell me if I’m right or wrong on this, but I know your answer is whatever you want to do. But, um, I pour it on really heavy. Mm-hmm. And then I massage it in, right? And then as I pour, and then I can tell like because the, the meat starts to almost break apart. Mm-hmm. You know, as you’re massaging it in, it starts to separate just a little bit. And then I pour a little more on there, and then I massage it again until it feels like it has almost like a caking around the outside of it. Mm-hmm. And I do that top, bottom, sides, rub it into the fat, rub it into the creases and everywhere, right? Mm-hmm. Is thatI mean, ’cause it, it’s a lot. Mm-hmm. You know, I can use a, a quarter of that whole thing right there, you know, just doing this brisket. Yeah, and that’s what I want you to do so you order more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, no, you’re, you’re, you’re doing it right. Like I don’t really massa- like my brisket, I don’t really massage in. Mm-hmm. Uh, I’ll start on the meat side first. Hit it, um, couple pats. I don’t really, sometimes I’ll use a binder, sometimes I don’t. Just kind of depends on whatAnd if I do, I usually use Worcestershire sauce. Mm-hmm. Um, flip it over, do it up again. Mm-hmm. but it’s heavy. Mm-hmm. It, it’s a, it’s a heavy coat. But I don’t really massa- I just pat and then let the salts do its thing. Mm-hmm. Because that salt’s gonna get in there, start penetrating, start breaking down those muscle fibers, things like that. Yeah. Um, like whenever I, I teach steak, our steak class is rib eye. And we do a, you know, they say, “Oh, salt your rib eye the night before, a little salt on there, put it in the fridge,” da, da, da. And sometimes you ain’t got time for that. Guess what? We’re gonna do about an 11 to 12 minute salt dry brine. Mm-hmm. And it blows people’s minds. Mm-hmm. The, the way salt interactes- interacts and tenderizes, uh, that meat. Where we’ll salt it up, then I’ll bring them over to the sink to rinse it off and I’m, and I always tell them like, “All right, before, before you salt it, I want you to kind of run your fingers over there and, and feel how tight those fibers are. “Mm-hmm. Salt it, when we go over to the sink- It’s kosher salt. do the same thing. Yeah, course kosher salt. Do the same thing and feel the difference. And they’re mo- They’re like, gosh. “And that was only done in 11 minutes, you know? Things like that. Um, so get on there. The longer you can do, the more it’s gonna tenderize. Mm-hmm. Uh, briskets, if I can, I try to get them seasoned up 24 hours in advance. Okay. Um, yeah. And then throw them back in the fridge? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I’ll usually, and I don’t know if there’s any science behind this, I’ll let it, I’ll season it, and as soon as I start seeing it sweat, you know, whenever you- Mm-hmm. start getting that wet on top- Mm-hmm. that’s when I’ll go back in the fridge. Okay. Um, like I said, I don’t know why. It’s just in my mind it seems like it works better that way. Okay. Excuse me. Um, same with, uh, shoulders. My, you know, for some pulled pork, things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, my rib roast for Christmas is getting salted tomorrow morning before I go into work. Mm-hmm. It’s gonna get, you know, a 48-hour salt sit. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, salt your friend. Okay. So you’re gonna take that, you’re gonna salt it, you’re gonna rub it in, then you’re gonna throw it on the grill. You point towards the flame or point away? start off, point goes towards you heat source. Okay. Just ’cause there was more inner muscular fat in there. It can take that heat longer, things like that. At the wrap, I’m gonna flip it and have my flat going towards that heat source to get it to catch up and finish off. Okay. So that you take the, the, the thick end- Mm-hmm. put it towards the, towards the heat. Mm-hmm. At the turn, you flip it the other way. Yep. Fat up, fat down. Fat up. Fat up. Yeah, that- Drains down through the meat. Eh. I mean, no. Okay. You know, it, it doesn’t. Um, that was the old school, uh, thinking behind it, but it, science has dispelled that. Um- Okay. I think fat up, just because I like fat up ’cause it’s tradition. Mm-hmm. But you can render it better, and it just, there’s something about having that nice little piece of fat on that bite. Mm-hmm. That’s well rendered- Yeah. and brown. Versus if you’re fat down, I’ve done one upside-down like that before, and it was on accident. Mm-hmm. Um, it just wasn’t the same. Mm-hmm. Like, everything justI don’t know. And I, and then it might be because in my mind I’m like, “Oh, I screwed up, I”Mm-hmm. You know, whatever. Um, fat wasn’t the same. Mm-hmm. I want that fat up top. I want the heat, you know, coming up over, rendering it down, and just creating, you know, just has that extra flavor to it. Fat’s flavor. Right? Mm-hmm. And something about being up. So, you said science has proven it wrong. What is, what did they, they prove thatThat the meat doesn’t truly, like, the fat doesn’t r- drip into, like, doesn’t, isn’t absorbed by that meat. By the fibers? Yeah. Okay. So- Runs off the side- Yeah. versus running down the side of it? Yeah, or, you know, you ever doing your brisket and you’re, that, the thin end on your flat cup’s up- Mm-hmm. it traps right there. So it either runs off or it traps right there. Okay. It doesn’t, it doesn’t get absorbed back into it. What you’re doing is, the inner muscular fat that’s in there, that’s the fat flavor you’re tasting, ’cause you’re rendering it out. Mm-hmm. And it actually gets dispersed throughout that protein. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, so when we get it, we’re cooking it, we’re cooking it at what temp? 225? Where are you at? Uh, depends on how much h- Size of the brisket? How much time? how much time I have to invest. Okay. Um, if I’m in my office- Let’s say you have your, you, you have your ultimateIf I were to make my very b- best brisket, what would I do? Uh, I would have my brisket, put it into my cold smoker, don’t even have a fire going. Um, start just a little baby fire. Slowly bring to temp, um, over several hours, up to about 225. Let it sit there for an hour or 2, then to 250. Up to 275. Um, 275 until I wrap. Once I’m wrapped, then I’m gonna go, maintain 275, maybe 300. Okay. Once you’ve wrapped you’re gonna turn it to 300 and cook that. Mm-hmm. And how long are you gonna cook that for? ‘Til it’s done. A- and that’s 20-that’s 202? Uh, no. Uh, it’s ’til it’s probe tender. Okay. You know, everything, if you read recipes, things like that, a good rule of thumb’s 203 degrees. Okay. Right? Um, always tell folks, start probing with your InstaRead thermometer. Don’t look at the temp, you’re probing for fill. Yeah. Start probing once you’re about 195. I’ve had briskets where they’re probe tender at 196. Like, I’m like, “Oh, okay, we’re done. “I look at the temp, I’m like, “Oh, okay. “Um,If you’re not used to what that feel is yet- Mm-hmm. then aim for about 203. Okay. But as you work on your craft and really, like, we kind of talked earlier how y- y- you, you want to be better- Mm-hmm. what you do and, and things like that, you’ll get the feel down. And it should feel, when that probe goes in, like a butter knife goingYou know when you sit your butter out on the- Yeah. on the countertop? Mm-hmm. So just have that feel to it. That’s your muscle memory feel. So when that probe goes inshould slide through that easy. Then you’re good to go. Okay. So it might be 195. It might be 206. Who knows? speaker<|agent|><|en|> So every cut is different, depends on- Absolutely. Okay. So let’s talk about, speaking of that, let’s talk about the difference between prime, choice. I mean, look, I’ll be real with you. Like, uh, I hit HEB up the other day, and, uh, I was looking at some briskets and they were like $130 for a brisket. Hm. And I was like, “Bro, what happened to the $65 brisket the other day? “I’m like, “What was going on with that? “So, um, talk to me. Like, for someone to make an investment of $130 for a brisket, is it that much better than a $65 brisket? LikeUh, with your prime, you’re gonna have more intermuscular fat. Okay. So you got that advantage of it. So it’s gonna be more forgiving throughout that cook. Go choice, and, and like our brisket classes, I teach choice because it’s more economical. Right? I canI think Kroger right now has choice briskets on sale for 2. 99 a pound. Mm-hmm. Man or woman can go buy that brisket at 2. 99 a pound and feed their family with that. Yeah. It’s harder to pull the trigger on a $130 brisket- Right. versus a $60, $65 brisket. Right. Um, your choice is gonna be leaner obviously, so doing that, you’re gonna want to doYou wanna wrap itMake sure you wrap it in something. Mm-hmm. Y- Choice, you don’t ever want to go the method of just letting it stay out there, cook until it’s done- Mm-hmm. and then wrap and go in. Uh, you’re gonna want to entrap some of those juices in there, so your foil boat method would be great for, for that- Choice? for your choice. Um, I still evenI still do the, um, butcher paper- Mm-hmm. for mine, but I’ll use some tallow in the wrap. I typically, I usually don’t, like if I’m doing prime and things like that, I know that’s been a big- Mm-hmm. deal with the adding the tallow in with your wrap and things like that. Only do that with my choice, because it adds more fat in there. Helps with, um, a little bit of insulation and moisture retention. When you say you’re adding the tallow, are you rubbing it on the sheet? Or are you taking a chunk of it and sticking it inside that? I’ve already rendered it down, so I’m likeIt’s the liquid form of the fat. Okay. And putting it down, rubbing it on, put a little over the top. Yeah. Then wrap it up and go. Okay. Um, so, uh, and then even with that, like doing yourWith your choice, if you can have the time or the ability, the fridge space to make sure you season it 24 hours in advance- Mm-hmm. just to help get that tenderization, allow that salt to do what it needs to do during that time- Mm-hmm. the better. Okay. So you think you’re fine either way as long as you prep it right and cook it- Oh, yeah. for what it needs to be cooked like? Oh, yeah. I mean, briskets back in the day- Mm-hmm. that was select or less, you know? Yeah, yeah. Before the grading system was out and doing it up on the trails, the cowboys, things like that, and Cookie doing, doing his thing. Working magic with it. Uh, they weren’t running prime and things like that. Yeah. They were figuring it out, so. What really is the difference between the type of cattle that produce something that is prime versus the type of cattle that’s a select? I think the genetics behind it, the, the cattle and the feed out process and just how they work. I don’t know the trueMm-hmm. That’s my speculation. I don’t really know. Mm-hmm. but I think a lot of it’s genetics. Mm. On how they breed for it and things like that. Okay. Just to pinky up really quickly, there’s been a lot of debate about old school versus new school on these cooking systems. I’ve seen, uh, seen people cooking on a, an offset. Mm-hmm. I’ve seen, uh, people cooking on a pellet grill. Mm-hmm. Seen people cooking in a Green Egg. Yeah. I’ve seen like these elevator shaft looking things. YeahYou know? I’ve seen, um, these ones that are on like rotisserie style. Mm-hmm. Um, talk to me about each one of these andWhat’s real? What’s the best? It’s all real, and the best one is whatever allows you to cook for your family and meets your lifestyle needs. Okay. Um, you know, I- I have a bunch of Traegers. Mm-hmm. I’m, I’m an ambassador for Traeger. I didn’t even know what a pellet grill was- Mm-hmm. until late 2019, I think. Um, I’ve always had an offset and a Weber. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Uh, and, you know, the, the Traegers, the pellet grills are, umThey say set it, forget it. Well, I ruined my first 4 cooks on that thing. Yeah. I over-complicated it, you know? Yeah. I was like, “Oh, I thought this was going to be easy. “No. Yeah. Now, I mean, i- it is. II live a very busy life. Mm-hmm. Um, I have the real job outside of Meat Therapy. I have kids and grandk- You know, and we’re very active and going. Mm-hmm. And so my pellet grill, for an active lifestyle, to still cook something and, and be great, is a great option. Right. Um-drum smokers. Mm-hmm. Uh, I’d- I’d got a, my first drum smoker 3 or 4 months ago, I guess? Mm-hmm. Uh, and i- it’s from Cotton Gin, it’s their harvest- Harvester. It’s a beautiful rig. Explain to people what drum smoker is, just so, in case they don’t know. Uh, so it’s a 55-gallon metal drum- Mm-hmm. with a lid on it. Uh, this one’s a little bit fancier. It’s got some flutes that come out for regulation, uh, a door in the front to be able to add fuel if you need to. Um, but really, it’sDid you ever grow up, uh, with the, the burn barrel out in the backyard? He- heck yeah. Hell yeah. That was my favorite part about going to my grandma’s. Yeah. Like, “Oh, we get to burn,” you know? Yeah. Think about a burn barrel. Mm-hmm. Just a whole lot fancier. Mm-hmm. That you’re cooking meat on. Okay. It’s fun. Like- Okay. You can smoke with it, you can hang with it, like hang your meats, things like that. I- it’s a lot of fun. It’s almost like a, uh, like a, a pit grill, except you’re taking the fire further away from it. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yeah, or you can get it down closer to it if you want, you can drop things down closer. There’s a heat deflector- Mm-hmm. that you can use, kind of like your, uh, your Kamado-style, your ceramic cookers, like your Green Eggs. Yep. That heat deflector, so you can do the smoke and not have that direct heat, and things like that. So it’s a lot of fun. Um, offset is, will always be my first and foremost method- Mm-hmm. I use, just because it’s what I grew up on. Like, my dad talked about me growing up on the lake, and- Yeah. all the parties and things like that. Uh, we, my dad and his buddies, I can’t remember if they built it or they had it and brought it out, it just became there. Yeah. And, uh, I think, you know, growing up with that, and parties, and my dad says my first ever overnight brisket was when I was, like, 7. Mm-hmm. I think it was just mainly because he knew I was excited, not to wake his drunk ass up to go put another firelog, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, but, uh, you know, it’s, it’s just, it’s tradition. Yeah. Um, I, I think you, you get a little bit better bark, you render the fat a little bit better, things like that. Mm-hmm. And it’s just, play of fire. You know, one thing with, uh, with the fire and the offset is, look, it’s a little bit of a headache to try to stay on top of the fire and making sure- Mm-hmm. the temperature’s what it is. But the metal that’s in those offsets is so much thicker, and a lot of these pellet grills- Oh, yeah. you know, quite honestly, like I, I, I have a pellet grill myself. Mm-hmm. And I know I’m losing heat- Mm-hmm. through the side of that thing, especially when it gets cold, because it cooks completely different, right? Mm-hmm. But you’re able to control what temperature you do have. Once it’s in the box and you have that flame, you’re consistent throughout. Mm-hmm. You know, as opposed to the other way around. It’s still churning, but it’s like, it’s losing through the thickness- Yeah. of the metal and through the cracks in this thing. And soOh, yeah. Um, and, like, yeah, once the, the good offsets, like, I, mine’s are custom-built from, uh, I try to stay local as much as possible, and can and pit some fabrication out of Cranberry. Mm-hmm. It’s a, you know, it’s nothing big, it’s, it’s a, it’s beautiful. Yeah. Like, it, when I pull it out of the trailer at events and stuff, it turns heads. Man, that thing cooks like a heat gym. Yeah. Like, once you get it up and, you know, you have your heat soak process- Yeah. where you got to heat up the, the metal too. Yep. So, and once it’s truly heated up to temp and it’s taken in all the heat it can, then you just ride. Yeah. You just toss something in every 45 minutes to an hour, and almost like cruise control. I love it. I’m about to get me a new one as well. I don’t know what I’m gonna get yet, but I gotta get a new one. Oh, yeah. Because I wanna do some of this while I’m in bed versus, like-getting out and running on that thing. Yeah. Or walking away from it and wondering how it’s going, so- Oh, yeah. Um, I’ll, I’ll take some advice from you after this is all said and done, but, um- Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, so, so once, while you’re, while you’re cooking on an offset, I know that that is, uh, sitting by the fire- Mm-hmm. sitting by, sitting by your, your, your smoker. What kind of chairs you got? I have it- it’s, uh, I think it’s the Magellan, uh, director-style chairs. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I got a bad back, so I can’t be all, like, low riding and- Yeah. no support. I gotta be, I gotta be firm to make it through that cook, so. Yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s my, that’s my chair. You got them shocker springs on that bad boy? No, I’m gonna upgrade those, though. Man, that is, that’s it right there. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I’m telling you. What is the, uh, what’s the drink of choice when you’re out smoking a brisket? Um, usually something with TX Whiskey in it. I love, like, the TX Whiskey blended. Mm-hmm. Uh, and Coke 0. Okay, there you go. That is just,The vanilla- Well, it just, e- every Texas boy’s a, a whiskey Coke kind of guy. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, and that’s, you know, it’s funny. I used, I was a beer guy- Uh-huh. uh, in the military, and I was, guys were like, “Hey, let’s, let’s go, Wilson. Let’s go have a couple drinks. “I was like, “I’ll, I’ll just, I’ll come out for my 2 beers. “Yeah. Like, okay. Well, we had a little dive bar outside of Fort Hood we’d go to. Yeah. And the bartender really liked us, so I’d order my 2 beers, which was just 2 pitchers. Yeah, okay. And I’d just, you know, drink. Yeah. But everybody else was whiskey and Coke, and boy, I just, like I, I, I don’t know. Uh, eh, I’ll order one and over there in the corner trying to drink it-and be a man, you know? And, uh, kinda got to where I liked it, but then I discovered old fashioneds. Mm, there you go. Uh, at the, think it was LongHorn Steakhouse. Mm-hmm. We, we went to LongHorn and orderedoh, and I’ve been pretty much obsessed ever since. Like, I make my own simple syrups now for ’em. Okay. Um, I’ve come up, like, we teach a, a old fashioned station in our classes. Uh, it’s a smoked old fashioned. Okay. But I don’t do it like the restaurants do it. Mm-hmm. Uh, just because I tell ’em, how, you know, you get that white plume-y smoke and things like that. Yeah. And they’re pumping you full of cancer. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and, and I say it half-heartedly joking, but it’s the whi- white smoke like that is, you don’t want that in barbecue. Yeah. Right? Because A, it is a little bit, has a little bit more carcinogens in there. Mm-hmm. And it gives it a bitter taste. So they talk about, you know, whenever you’re smoking, keeping that almost clear smoke, that blue smoke. Well, I wanted to like these at the restaurants, but it was bitter to me. Mm-hmm. I just, I couldn’t do it. So like, all right, how do I create a smoked old fashioned that’s not bitter and it’s not pluming full of white smoke? ‘Cause I’m like, oh yeah, and don’t forget, you know, I’m, I’m in healthcare. Yeah. That’s my real job now- Yeah. is in healthcare. Um, and so created, uh, our sim- our smoked simple syrups, and then I smoke our fruit. Mm-hmm. Um, and found that, like, oranges take on that smoke really well. And once you slice it off and you go do your twist, it just releases those oils more. Mm-hmm. And more natural oils coming out of that rind, and gives you just this very light hint of a smoky flavor. Hmm. So it’s not overpowering, it’s not bitter. It is just, it is good. Yeah, I mean, I’ve, I’ve gone to a few places where they’re, you know, putting the cap on and they’re spraying the torch through it. Mm-hmm. And makes this big plume. Or they put it inside of a chamber- Yeah. and doing all this other stuff, and I’m like, everybody’s super excited about it and everybody is looking around to see what’s going on, right? Tastes like you’re chewing on a piece of charcoal to me- Yeah, yeah. you know, at the end of the day, and I’m like, I don’t wanna drink an ashtray. Yup. I would, so I, I prefer not to get it done. So, um, that sounds, that sounds very interesting that you’re taking the fruit, that you’re actually smoking the fruit. Yup. And everybody else is using fresh fruit, so that’s a completely different approach than I’ve heard before. Yeah, yeah. Um, worked out well. A- and I’ll, I’ll wet it. I’ll throw it in the fr- like the oranges, I’ll wet ’em, throw ’em in the freezer for about 30 minutes, pull ’em out, little bit more water, onto the smoker. Mm-hmm. Um, ’cause cold and wet attracts smoke molecules more. Okay. And so that’s kind of why I’ll put my brisket into a cold smoker too. Mm-hmm. Is, all right, it’s cold. It’s gonna attract the initial smoke molecules more right off the bat, so I’m not worried trying to push at the end to get more smoke on it. Is the cold smoke blue or white? Uh, like, starting it off? Yeah. You might have, at the very beginning, just a very hint of your, uh- White. white. Mm-hmm. Like, on your initial ignition. Mm-hmm. But it clears out really quick. Okay. If you get it, even at the, youEven if you’re doing the baby fire. Yeah. Um, like the little fire bombs I’ll use, it ignites it really quick. Doesn’t come up in temp real fast, but it, it ignites that wood quick, burns through that initial, like, dirty smoke stage. Mm-hmm. To where you’re, you’re thin within minutes. Okay. So. And you’re throwing just like, you’re trying to get that temperature to what to do a cold smoke like? Oh n- like, I’m not, I’m not cold smoking my fruit. Is that what, like, almost like you’re doing- When you said you like to do the brisket and then you throw it in the cold smoke just like you do the sa- that’s why you do that. Oh, yeah. I was just capitalizing on it. ‘Cause we didn’t, yeah. Um, baby fire, slowly come up to about 100 degrees. Okay. And then once I hit 100, I’ll s- put some more on there, and it’s about a 3hour process to get me- Okay. up to about 225. Okay, cool. Yeah. All right. Um, so on- once you’ve set everybody up, basically you’ve made old fashioneds for the crew that comes out, right? This is how we make these. Mm-hmm. TX Whiskey for all of these. Oh, yeah, yeah. Um, ice, bitters- Right. simple syrups. Yup. Uh, so half ounce of our simple syrup, 2 ounces of TX Whiskey straight bourbon, um, couple dashes of just regular aromatic bitters, and then we also like orange bitters in ours, so we’ll do 2 dashes of orange bitters. Mm-hmm. Nice big block of ice. Mm-hmm. Um-your fruit, like your, your orange rind. Mm-hmm. Spin it in, and then the Luxardo cherry- Mm-hmm. with a little bit of that juice on there. Oh, throw a little juice, yeah. You know, stirring, going in there. I, I think Luxardos taste good. I haven’t had toBeen able to eat one in years- Mm-hmm. just ’cause my wife steals them all. And ifLike, if you’re a good husband, and you make Old Fashioneds at home, and your wife likes Luxardo cherries, give her that cherry. Yeah. It, it, it just makes life so much more enjoyable. Yeah. Like, it just brings a smile to her face. So, guys out there, make sure you give your wife that cherry. Give it up. Yeah. Give it up. Let’s go. So you got everybody around the fire, sitting out, that’s when the stories start to come out. Right? So you set this back. We’re circling back around to, the Meat Therapy part. Mm-hmm. Right? Done all the prep. Everything’s setting on. What’s the introduction? What do you, youHow do you, how do you open up? Uh, intro, um, kinda, we talked about it earlier, that story’s starting at 2009. Mm-hmm. Of getting out of the military. Mm-hmm. Life sucked. You tell them your story first. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, because- This is where I was at, this is how I felt. Yeah. And this is’Cause if, if I’m not vulnerable right out the gate, nobody’s gonna know what Meat Therapy really is- Yeah. when they come in there. Unless they know our story already. Mm-hmm. So I’m gonna be open and honest right there. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we go into that story, and just ups and downs between them and where we’re standing at now. Mm-hmm. Um, and we tell them, like, “Yes, we call it a barbecue class, a cooking class, learn how to da-da-da. “Yeah. But really, we want people to pump the brakes on life. Forget about all the BS that’s happened outside these walls. Let’s come together in here. Let’s talk. Let’s have a conversation. Let’s cook some stuff. Hopefully it turns out great. If not, it’s on you, because you’re the one that cooked it. May have been under my tutelage, but-it usually turns out pretty good. Yeah. Um, and let’s just, let’s just have some fellowship together. Yeah. In a room. Food, drink, smoke, fire. Yeah. Um, and I’ve found that with doing that and being open, it willIt, it can sometimes start conversations very quickly- Mm-hmm. about struggles that somebody else may be having. Which is great. It puts us a little behind in the class whenever it does, but I’m like, “Oh, you got my attention. “Yeah. “Let’s sit down, let’s talk. “Yeah. And I’llYou know, Jacqueline, my wife, she, she helps me with these things. And, I mean, she, she knows how to keep the show running if that happens. And, um, we’ll have theThat conversation, and then we’ll get started, and we may pick it up more to it. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, with our classes and things like that, we’ll have these down times, so it’s not all like, bang, bam, bam. Like there’s significant down time to be able to have conversations. Yeah. Sit around. We do offer cigars. Hm, okay. You know, uh, and some people will have it, or a couple of guys will, and everyone will start sitting around and talking. And it would be time for me to sit down and, and talk with them, and those questions sometimes like, ohLike I’ve had guys, “How do I get help? “Mm-hmm. got some resources for you. “Yeah. “Let me tell you about Boot Campaign,” if they’re, if they’re a veteran, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, if not, then, you know, try and guide them on to some other resources. Mm-hmm. And, um, yeah, just allow the conversation go. So itConversations can be anywhere from, “Well, how do I do this on a smoker? “Or, “How do I cook this,” that we’re not even covering today, to, “How do I do life? “Mm-hmm. You know? And there’s justAnd they’re complete strangers. Mm-hmm. That we’ve just welcomed into our home, open up, and we get to have those real, authentic conversations with, with each other. Yeah. So basically, you’reWhat you’re trying to do is just crack the nut a bit. You’re not really trying toYou just want people to open up, and- Yeah. and, and have a conversation, and, and realize that, “Hey, there’s other people out there just like me. “Yeah. You know? That you’re not alone in whatever battle you’re, you’re facing. Mm-hmm. Right? We may not be battling the same battle. Yeah. But we’ve battled. Mm-hmm. And this isThese are some things that’s helped me. Mm-hmm. It might help you, or, or they may be battling something, they can share their experience. Mm-hmm. and what’s kinda helped them or, you know, things like that. And then people hear that conversation going and it’ll attract others to- Mm-hmm. to start chiming in. All of a sudden you’re having like this big Kumbaya moment, um, that’s just incredible. Yeah. That you don’t see that often out there, especially amongst men. Mm-hmm. Um, and it, it, I think it’s just creating that safe environment- Mm-hmm. to be open to talk about it. And so on. So most of the guests that you have, are they military-based guys? Late, a lot, lately it has because we’ve, that’s where our focus has been on. Um, like the Boot Campaign, we’ve partnered with them, so the health and wellness program I talked about. Mm-hmm. They do a graduation ceremony with them and it was last year we s- we started doing the graduation ceremony slash therapy session at our house, in our backyard. Mm-hmm. And so these veterans, they fly them in from all across the nation and it’s been, that’s where I started seeing this kinda, where I imagined Meaththerapy going from a veteran standpoint. Mm-hmm. And so with Boot Campaign trusting us so much to bring these veterans into our home to put on a class with them- Mm-hmm. and share my story in therapy, and I always joke around. It’s like, “Ah, you’re graduating. You thought you were done with therapy with Boot Campaign but you got one more to go. “Hopefully this one doesn’t leave you crying, you know? Yeah. Um, but found that more and more too. So we’ve done a few other classes this year that there seems to be more and more veterans just in the class- Mm-hmm. that as soon as I start that initial intro and talk about my veteran status, things like, they, and, and we’ll ask too, after we’re, “Do we have any veterans in the group? “They raise their hand so we can recognize them, thank them for their service. And, which is awkward, because even for me, I know, like if anyone says, “Oh, thank you for your service,” like, “Hey, what do I do with my hands? “You know? Um, but just recognizing them. Yeah. Um, and, uh, uh, we’re getting more and more that may not know anything about Meaththerapy but they are veterans- Mm-hmm. and get to engage from that standpoint. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s funny. I wanna address that just for a second. You said it’s really tough when people tell you, “Thank you for your service. “Yeah. Right? And from an outsider’s perspective, because I wasn’t in the military, I get asked all the time was I in the military. I was not in the military but I’m super thankful for everyone that has done this for us and taken care of us and protected us and, everything of that nature. But why is it so hard? Because what I know that you guys know on the outside, it’s almost like saying, “Yes, ma’am,” to a lady that doesn’t wanna be called ma’am. Right. Right? Um, we wanna be respectful and we wanna make sure that we’re calling out the sacrifice that you guys have made. We wanna make sure that you know that you’re respected and loved and appreciated for, for everything. But on the other side of that, what is the, just so people that don’t have that can, can understand and go, “I’ve heard. I don’t really feel like it was worth saluting. “know? Yeah. Um, I think, you know, we signed up for it. You know, we, we’re, we haven’t had a draft since Vietnam. Now, those boys that got drafted, oh, they deserve every amount of respect, kudos we can give them, because they didn’t get that coming home. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, my generation, when you come home, you’re greeted with love and cheers, and- Mm-hmm. But we signed up for it. Mm-hmm. We knew what we potentially were getting ourselves into. Um, so I don’t know. It’s just, I don’t know. Like, what we did, I know made a difference. Mm-hmm. Um, but being thanked for it just feels weird. And I don’t know how to explain that. But don’t you know that the, the transaction of what both people did in Vietnam and the transaction of what you guys did was the same? Reasoning to go in and acceptance on the way out. That’s not what we’re thanking everybody for. We’re thanking for you putting your life on the line and you saying, “No matter when it comes down to this, I chose to do this or not choosing to do this, I’m still doing this and my life is the thing that stands between you and those other guys. “And people wanna stand up in respect and say, “Thank you for making those choices. “Right? Um, and I guess what I’m saying is, like, I’m not trying to teach you anything-at all. I mean, like, you, you’ve been there, done that, and I haven’t, right? So what I am saying is that from our perspective is, we wanna know what to say, you know? Oh, yeah. We wanna know how to thank you. We wanna know, um, for all those people that are out there that are suffering and feeling some kind of way about these things, we wanna know, like, what should I do or what can I do to make you feel more comfortable and celebrate the fact that you stood up for me? You know what I mean? Like, so I know it’s an awkward situation on both sides, but what’s the, what’s the best way for someone like us to approach that? I, I, even though the “Thank you for your service,” makes so many of us feel-awkward, weird. I, I really don’t know. Haven’t been able to dissect the feeling that that gives me, uh, umI don’t know. I think the, umYou know, my response is, thank you so much for your support. ‘Cause I, it, itI know the intentions behind it. And, uh, and I love that as Americans we love our soldiers so much- Mm-hmm. and our military so much, um, and respect them beyond belief and I don’t know the feeling behind it. Mm-hmm. And why, like, I know y’all’s, your intention behind it. Mm-hmm. I don’t know why my feeling behind it is like that. It’s a very common thing that I hear all the time. Yeah. Yeah, and you know, I don’t know if there is a different approach. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause that, that’s, even myself, knowing that about me, you know, I work in a hospital now. If I see someone coming in and they have the Army hat or, you know, the, the cap that symbolizes they served in the military, I shake their hand, thank them for their service. Mm-hmm. Knowing, even knowing that about me, it’s just natural. You wanna recognize that. Mm-hmm. Um, I don’t know, man. Buy me a beer somewhere. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know what, I, I really, I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah, I was, I always wonder how to approach that ’cause I, I get that sentiment from quite a few people- Yeah. of, “Okay, well, I just did what I was, it was my job. “Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. Right? Shake my hand. Shake my hand, yeah. Shake my hand. We don’t have to say words. Yeah, because I know that a lot of, it’s not just, “I went over there to do a job. “There’s things that are a part of you forever- Mm-hmm. now, due to that choice. And, uh, I think just showing respect for, for those moments and for the things that people have done. I’ve got family members that are POWs and I’ve got family members that were, didn’t make it, you know, and family members that did, you know? And so, um, I don’t know. Like, I’ve always been scared to go to the military, to be quite honest. Like, I was preached that from, by my mother on one side. You know? It’s like, “Do your grades, son. Make sure you get your grades up so, so we don’t lose you,” or whatever. So I’ve always had the fear of, like, that. But I’ve always had, on the other side, like, I wanted to go, like, and, um, stand up for my country and, and, and be the person that saves everybody. Like, I wanted to do that, you know? But also, there is a fear of losing your, y- losing yourself, losing your life. Um, and I don’t know if it was more my life, but it was more myself. Mm-hmm. You know? Because I think for the most part, like, there’s, there’s a little bit of something inside of you that, you know, it kinda gets awakened, you know? Mm-hmm. When, when you guys go off to do something, you know? And so, um, and it’s something you can never put back in the box again. Yeah. Yeah, y- you know, they describe it as, your brain rewires itself-to the primordial, primordial side of things. And it wires very quickly- Mm-hmm. to that, you know? It’s just natural. To what’s acceptable and what’s not? Yeah. You know, your fight or flight response becomes-Yeah. You know, everyone has it, but to what degree? Mm-hmm. When we get into here and you just, it all shuts down, um, it’s not so easy to get it wired back to what we consider normal again. Reset. And it doesn’t ever fully rewire to that. Mm-hmm. And so, that’s where you either recognize that in yourself and make the choice to work on yourself to start that rewiring process, to mitigate yourself. Mm-hmm. Um, versus not- Mm-hmm. and just thinking you’re fine. “Oh, I can do this alone. “And then that’s when, um, suicide and everything else that can happen, uh, alcoholism, drugs- Mm-hmm. really comes into place when you don’t recognize that or y- others recognize it in you and you don’t want to listen to it. Mm-hmm. And so I think that’s where you gotta try and recognize that in a buddy. Mm-hmm. Hold them accountable. Be that, like, “Hey-” Mm-hmm. ” you’re, you’re hurting. I can see it. “Yeah. “I know you know you’re hurting. What can we do to help you? “Mm-hmm. So that’s, that’s what I try to do Yeah. So what I, what I see all together is meat therapy is really a launchpad, you know, for these guys to come in and go from something they’re comfortable with, something they get enjoyment out of- Mm-hmm. uh, that they can actually either tear it down and launch off to something else that can help them- Mm-hmm. open doors to things that can help them, you know, but it’s really kind of an introductory launchpad, an introductory, int- introductory session to, “Hey man, we’re all cooking some, some great food here and we all love this, but let’s talk for a minute. “Yeah. You know, “What’s ailing you? “Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. If you’reI guess I hadn’t really thought about it as being something like that, but it’s, it’s what it’s really become. Mm-hmm. Um,really is like a therapy session. Mm-hmm. You know, just, you know, you don’t walk into the, your therapist’s office day one and just spill your guts, you know? Mm-hmm. tell you, it can get some good conversations going and follow-up conversations. Like, I, I, I’ve had several folks that have come through and I share my s- my cell phone, like, “Hey, if you need anything-” Mm-hmm. ” got questions, reach out. “Um, I love it when I get questions over, “Hey, I’m gonna do that brisket now. “Da da da da. Mm-hmm. But boy, when I get those questions of, “Hey, I’m kind of feeling like this. “Mm-hmm. “Have you ever felt that way? “Mm-hmm. Oh, have I? Yes, I have. Yeah. Let me tell you aboutUm, tho- those meaningful, impactful conversation that’s come out of those therapy sessions has beenIt’s changed my life. Yeah. UmI was gonna ask you, how much have you grown since you started doing this- Oh. and how much has it been able to, I won’t say bury, but help heal some of thoseTremendously. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, even to the point of whenever recognizing that I was failing myself- Mm-hmm. and my family after, you know, deaths ofOh, I’m, I’m preaching this message. Mm-hmm. Not preaching it, but I’m, I’m trying to live by this and get others to- Mm-hmm. grasp, um, the mental health aspect and, and know it’s okay to not be okay- Mm-hmm. but here I am lying to myself saying I’m okay. Yeah. You know, it, it s- helped me recognize quicker- Mm-hmm. that, you know what? I need a tune up. Mm-hmm. I, IFor me, continue helping others. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I think it’s taught me patience. Mm-hmm. Just a lot of, a lot of different things which isHadn’t really thought about it until- Yeah. sitting here with you, you know? Yeah. We d- we just kindaStair step through it? Yeah, go through it and help when you can help and do, but you don’t reallyIt’s funny. I’ve had this conversation a lot, a lot of times with people. Talking through their story and just kind of narrating it as we’re walking it out, people don’t realize how they got from A to Z sometimes. Yeah. It’s really funny-’cause you can just go, “Oh, I see this and you did that. “And they go, “Oh, I’ve never thought about that before. “And it’s like, “Well, you lived it. “Yeah. Like, you didn’tYou lived it and didn’t see it. You know what I mean? Um, it’s really kind of a, a, a neat thing for me to be a part of to watch, you know, connections happen in someone’s mind of, “Oh, this is where this at. Oh, that’s where that came from. Oh, that’s why I feel that way,” or whatever, right? Yeah. Oh, that’s why I like barbecue. YeahYeah. Uh, well, that’s cool. Have you ever heard of a, uh, barbecue joint called Teddy Bear’s Barbecue? Oh, Teddy Bear. Oh, Craig. Yeah, buddy. Yeah. YeahI love that guy. Yeah. It hurts my heart that a, a Bostonian can-can sling Texas barbecue so damn well. A Yankee. But, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, uhI al-Yeah, I love that guy. Mm-hmm. Funny enough, um, we met, uh, in Alaska. Mm. That’s how we met. We had a mutual friend, uh, that was cooking at state fair and we both just happened to be there h- to help him out. Yeah. And, uh, didn’t realize that we were 30 miles apart. Mm-hmm. Never met him, you know, and, man, he, he’s one of my best friends now. Yeah. Um, I know he, he helps us with our events. Uh, we got him to move down to Waxahachie to be closer. Uh, you know, and he’s just a outstanding guy. He’s an unbelievable human. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you play golf with him? I have a couple times. Okay. Yeah. Um, I owe him and my neighbor Sam. So Sam, uh, we’re all, like, really good buddies and- Mm-hmm. I owe them a, a golf trip, um, that I’ve had back issues pretty bad here this last year that I haven’t been able to own up on, but- Uh-huh. they, they ain’t let me down yet- Yeah. or let me live it down. But yeah, we’ve, we’ve played a few times. It’s super fun. Who’s, who’s taking the crown on that bad boy? Oh, Craig. Old Craig’s wearing it out? Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. That kid-for, for being a, a husky, sexy fella, he can swing that, he’s like a John Daly out there. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. He, he does good. Sam, uh, he tries. Mm-hmm. He does pretty good. But yeah, Craig, like, he can shoot some, some golf. All right. Yeah. Well, he’s, uh, he’s challenged me a few times to, to go play, so- Oh, you need to do it. I’m, I’m ready. Pick him up on it. Yeah. You’re gonna need about 17 cigars to get through the round, but you know, heI love it. But yeah, no you gotta go play with that guy. He, he’s, he’s just fun to be around. Yeah, for sure. You know? You know, he’sfrom where we’re at now with Meat Therapy, we do a lot of events now. Mm-hmm. Which I never thought we’d be doing. Yeah. You know, we wouldn’t be where we were at now without him. Mm-hmm. Of course, I mean, like, our first ever real event we did, uh, I was telling him about it. He was like, “Oh, well, if you need help, let me know. “And it was out at Tiche’s Whiskey Distillery. Mm-hmm. And, uh, 3 years later, we’re still out there. Mm-hmm. He’s, he’s there every one. And I think, you know, he doesn’t ask to get paid. He gets, he gets paid in whiskey drinks and things like that. Yeah. Um, but, like, he, he’s a part of our story. Yeah. And s- and Sam, and, um, we have other friends like Misty and Travis. Travis is a Navy veteran. He, when we do the boot campaign events- Mm-hmm. he and his wife come out there. Mm-hmm. And, and help with those and our other military events that we do. He makes sure he- he’s there. And his son, uh, is in the Navy now and just completed his basic training for it. And living, seeing that story unfold with them and, um, Brandon, Tracy, like we, it’s, itThe amount of support from people of all walks of life- Mm-hmm. it justIt, it’s so humbling, soit’s awesome. Yeah. Well, when people see you doing a good thing, you know, and they wanna jump in and help, and that just, that just means you’re doing the right things, right? We’re trying. People donating time. Yeah. People donating time to come out, and, and one of the, one of the, if not the best, you knowAnd I’m gonna call you a, uh, teddy bear. I’m gonna call you a pit master. I know you don’t like that-but guess what? No. One of, one of the best pit masters out there. No. And, uh, um, donating his time, you know what I mean? And, uh, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s really cool to see. They, that just means you’re doing the right stuff, you know? We’re trying. Yeah. Because this was neverThis wasn’t on the plan sheet. Yeah, never is. And now, and it just continues- Yeah. to evolve into something, and, and, uh, we’re trying to do it the right way every step of the way. What’s the long term goal for this? Funny you ask that. Okay. Uh, I asked my wife that about two, two and a half months ago. We were on a big stretch, and I was in the hot tub recovering, and you know, uh, I said, “What’s our end game with this? “Because I’m working-and I don’t want to call Meat Therapy a f- a job, but like, these events we do and things like that, it, it’s, it’s a lot that goes into it. And plus my full time job- Mm-hmm. and family. I said, “What’s our end game with this? ‘Cause I can’t keep this pace up. “I’m- Mm-hmm. I know I look like I’m 29, but I am no spring chicken, you know? Hell, I’m a pappy. Mm-hmm. Uh, so we gotta start looking at that. Um, and we got a couple ideas on paper. Mm-hmm. Um, my father-in-law, he, he’s a, he’s a awesome guy, um, businessman, things like that, and he, he actually texted me today with some things to think about- Mm-hmm. and put on paper, and, um, just ’cause, you know, who knows? Mm-hmm. A year from now, it might be the only thing I’m doing. That’s cool. I don’t know, you know? That’s cool. Got a lot of, lot of things to do and plan and- Mm-hmm. um, and just see happens. Yeah. Go all in. Ten toes, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that’s, that’s what we’ve been doing, and, and, you know, we, we try to choose events that are meaningful and bring joy to myself- Mm-hmm. and, and to others. Um, but because we’re limited on what we can do- Mm-hmm. of my real job and, and things like that, to where, you know, how much more of an impact could we make if this was the full time job? Yeah. Or the full time gig. You’re making radio spots and, you know, stopping and doing more of these. Who knows? Yeah. You know? And, and just getting out there to share the s- the story. Help bringI, I call it mental health awareness, which I think all this really is, is- Mm-hmm. is around mental health and, and, uh, figuring out what helps you andI just wanna keep sharing that story to others. Mm-hmm. I don’t want that end to stop. Yeah. If you need some help, give us a holler. Oh, yeah. We got you, for sure. Appreciate that. Um, you know, uh, and is there any way that these people can kinda connect with you andYeah. Social media, um, you know, I’m on all the social media platforms. Uh, it’s y- uh, it’s meat. therapy. Mm-hmm. Um, which I’ve kind of taken a step back from social media. I’m not as active on there. Mm-hmm. Mainly because, like, I enjoy posting things and how to do, but itBecause we’re doing so much more out there in real life, um, from events and, and the events we’re doing, like going around to different Texas military bases and feeding soldiers and- Mm-hmm. and veterans out there, things like that, that, meaningful, impactful. I’m not saying- Mm-hmm. what I do on social media is not, and it can have a larger re- uh, reach, but it’s just getting harder for me to- Mm-hmm. I don’t want to say the drive is not there, but the drive- It’s tough. to create content- Yeah. is, is hard because I, I feel like I, I built the relationships on being able to engage on there with people. And it’s ha- getting harder and harder to engage because I’m just so busy and I don’t like-not having that time- Yep. to be authentic and I don’t want to hire some company to run my social media- Mm-hmm. and be that guy. Like, no, like we, we built this- Yeah. on being relational. And that’s how I want it to continue. Yeah. So if you see me post, it’s ’cause I’ve had time, I got time. Yeah. If you have questions of what I do or, or what I’ve said or brought up- Mm-hmm. like, I have that time now to give to you. Yeah. Because there, there’s nothing greater we can give somebody than our time. Yeah. And I want to make sure that, even from that social media aspect I can do it. So meat. therapy. That was a long explanation from there, sorry. You’re good. Uh, or, uh, you can email us- Mm-hmm. info@meattherapybbq. com. Hmm. Okay. And so that’s there. Um, and if you don’t remember that, you can just go to our website, meattherapybbq. com and, uh, there’s like a little form where you can contact us from there. SoI got one quick little scattershot and then we’re gonna roll through and wrap this up. Okay. What is the number one tip you can give somebody making burgers? Making burgers? Burgers. Is it the meat? Is it the seasoning? Is it the temp? Um, I like 80/20. I don’t want to go too lean. Okay. I also don’t want too much fat in there. Okay. They’re gonna shrink up, uh, be a little, a little80/20 I found is a really good mix. Um, don’t pre-season. Season right before you’re going on. Okay. So you don’t want it toYou actually, you want to maintain so the salt, it’s gonna pro- remove that moisture out of the cells, right? Mm-hmm. Which works on your big proteins. Yeah. But burgers, things like that- You don’t want to do that. you don’t want to do that ’cause it’s already ground up. It’s- Yeah. it just doesn’t act the same. So season right before you’re gonna go on. You don’t want to season, let it rest and sweat. No. Season, go on. Um, temperature wise, whatever your liking is. Mm-hmm. Like, we, I cook my burgers to about 140, 145. Okay. That’s how my wifeI cook, most of my recipes you see me post, I cook to my wife’s liking. Keeps her happy, keeps me happy, keeps the house happy, right? Yeah. Um, oh, another little, you can take your spoon, like once you form your patties- Mm-hmm. take like a, your big tablespoon concave that, the middle. Okay. ‘Cause a lot of times you’ll, you’ll cook and like your outsides will be good and it’ll be raw in the middle, things like that. Mm-hmm. But if you kind of flatten that out, you’ll get a more even cook. Okay. So that’s, that’s probably one of the biggest tips. ‘Cause they’re gonna draw up anyway- Yep. so if you smash it in the middle it- Yep. evenly distributes. That’s cool. Match your patty before you season. Like it’s formed, concave that middle. That’s cool. Yeah. Okay. What about ribs? Pork or beef? Uh, let’s go beef ribs. Beef ribs, just season it and cook it. Beef ribs are gonna take until it’s probe tender. They’re usually gonna be a little bit higher, about 205-ish is usually pretty good on those. Mm-hmm. Beef ribs are easy. Okay. Uh, they justYou don’t wrap them, you don’t do anything to them. You just throw them on. I don’t even spritz them. put them on and let her go. What about pork ribs? Pork ribs. So I cook my porkI like Tex style pork ribs. Mm-hmm. My wife likes more of a competition style. Mm-hmm. She loves the, the additional sweetness that comes through. And she doesn’t like, like we don’t use barbecue sauce on our ribs. Mm-hmm. Um, sotry the wrap method in foil- Mm-hmm. with all kinds of goodies. Mm-hmm. Like, really to enhance your flavors. Mm-hmm. Season it up. Um, after, I usually wrap ’em, I don’t know, a couple hours in once I get- Mm-hmm. like, the color I’m looking for. Mm-hmm. Wrap ’em up. I’ll do butter, couple pats of butter, some brown sugar, some seasoning, maybe some honey, maybe some agave, maybe some of my simple syrup. I don’t know. I’ll- Mm-hmm. catch a sink in there, you know? Yeah. And just play around with it. Um, play, have fun with ’em. Okay. Don’t be scared. And fall off the bone versus not fall off the bone, bite through, cook the damn things however you like ’em. If you like, as soon as you pick it up and it breaks in half- Mm-hmm. cook it like that. Then that’s a win. There you go. Yeah. You did it. Good job. You know? Um, yeah, don’t be scared with ’em. Uh, spend a little time, trim ’em up a little bit. Okay. Um, just, you have that chine bone on one end where it’ll be sticking out. Mm-hmm. Gotta cut ’em off. Mm-hmm. Cut that off, and then your flapper piece- Mm-hmm. I’ll usually cut it off. I’ll still cook it. Mm-hmm. It’ll cook faster and it’s just a little snack while everything else is cooking. Yeah. Uh, but get it a little more symmetrical just pretty. Yeah. What about steak? Ah, steak. Uh- Let’s go rib eye. Rib eye. So I like, I love doing a reverse sear. I’m a, I’m a good 2inch steak guy. Okay. Um, salt it up heavy, rinse it, reseason it, then I’ll put it inAnd I like, and I love teaching this method too, ’cause even if you don’t have a smoker you can do it in your oven. Um, put it in till you hit about 110, 100, if you like medium rare. Mm-hmm. That’s what we do. Till it hits about 110, 115 degrees, pull it out, let it rest for about 20 minutes, get your cast iron going, piping hot. Put you some good oil or tallow in there. Mm-hmm. Something about just, like, cooking your beef in the mama’s beef, I don’t know. It just appears-a little sadistic but it works out. So tallow, beef and tallow. Uh-huh. Um, and just rip it about 90 seconds each side, get that good crust. Let it sit there for another 10 minutes, slice her up. Then, then get at it. Yeah. Yeah, I did one up. That’s, that’s both my wife and I’s favorite steak, so I did a couple up Sunday. Like, we dropped the kiddo off with the grandparents- Mm-hmm. Saturday, get home Sunday. She’s like, “Can we have steak? “I was like, “Hell yeah. “Let’s get it. “Let’s go. “Um, if not, uh, if it’s a thinner steak, just grip it and rip it. Mm-hmm. Like, don’t try and do all the fancy stuff. Yeah. Just put it on that heat. Flip it every, you know, until you learn, like, the touch feel with it, with the rare, medium rare- Mm-hmm. medium, medium, da, da, da, flip it every minute. Just- Okay. The one-minute method. Okay. Flip, flip, flip, ’til you’re there. Okay. You’ll, you’ll get it where you want it. You’ll have your, um, a beautiful crust on there and it works out well. Are you a bacon wrap hot pepper guy or are you, uh- yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. Maple bacon? Where we, what are we looking at? No, I do just regular. Okay. Just a regular bacon, um, but we’ll season our bacon. Mm-hmm. Whatever we’re using. Um, and then, uh, but, yeah, we’ll do Texas Twinkies. I’ve played around, I’ve done Australian Twinkies- Mm-hmm. where I’ve used kangaroo in there. Um, regular just jalapeno poppers andI love jalapenos. Who doesn’t love bacon? Um, but I’ll tell you, prosciutto. Okay. So our classes will ask if anybody, you know, dietary this or that, and we have a good friend, um, and she, she does not like bacon. Hmm. I’m like, “We’reI don’t know how you’re even American but whatever. “But she likes prosciutto. Uh-huh. So I was like, “All right. I’ll do a one-off for you. I’ll doAnd I did it up, she loved it, I loved it. Mm-hmm. It’s actually really good. Okay. So try playing with some prosciutto, like, on your peppers- Okay. things like that. I actually mixed, uh, a little bit of, um, uh, brisket seasoning in my s- sa- with sausage. Mm-hmm. And then, um, cream cheese. Mm-hmm. And then I’ll precook the peppers for, mm, 10 minutes. Yeah. You know, just kind of get them a little warm and soft so they’re not so crispy when everything else starts to-cook. And then put it in there like a boat and then sprinkle brown sugar over the top of it. Dude, it’s that spicy, sweet taste. Uh-huh. It’s so good. Plays, plays with the taste buds. Oh man, so good. Oh, yeah. Eat a whole tray of those bad boys. Oh, yeah, well, that’s another one of our favorite things. I probably do poppers more than anything else out there. Just ’cause it’s like, “Oh, we had some leftover chicken, let me chop it up,” or pork or- Mm-hmm. whatever. I mean, you can stuff that thing with- Yeah. whatever you want. Then add bacon. delicious. Any, any, uh, anything I left out that you, specialty of yours? Ah, spec- Pollo, chicken, anything? I don’t know. Uh, everyoneThis is funny, I feel like a lot of people ask, like, “What’s your specialty? What do you love cooking? “Out of everything? Mm-hmm. Prime rib. Okay. Like, uh, that, back, I was talking about 2009, getting out, well- Mm-hmm. I had a good buddy, Leland, he, he enjoyed cooking too. Mm-hmm. We started kind of cooking together. Well, we would do prime ribs together. Mm-hmm. And we just work it up and, and, I don’t know, it was just, there’s memor- And I just love a good prime rib or a rib roast, you know? Mm-hmm. And so, like, I, I have one, my Christmas one I’ve been working on for several days now. Mm-hmm. Like, I have, I have a 7day process or a 5day process, a 3day process, or a day-of process- Mm-hmm. that I’ve played with over the years. Mm-hmm. And I just love prime rib. I love that because it’s such a big piece of meat- Mm-hmm. and, you know, your carryover cook. Mm-hmm. We talked about that in the resting phase. You know, you, you pull a steak off or whatever, you let it rest, and you, you plan for a little bit of a carryover cook. Well, the bigger the piece of meat is, the longer that carryover cook can go. So, like, if you’re wanting a medium rare center on your prime rib- Mm-hmm. you’re not pulling that thing at 125, 128. Pulling around 110. Okay. It’s gonna sit there and rest because all that heat and energy- Yep. is gonna continue to distribute through for quite some time. Mm-hmm. A little foil on there. And so just, brisket’s fun, I don’tYou know. But to get that excellent prime rib- Mm-hmm. it takes some, some playing around with- Mm-hmm. to, to guess that, get that heat distish- distribution during the rest and, and things like that- Yeah. and put it down. So yeah, I loveI loveNow you got me ready for Christmas. I’m ready for my prime rib. How much money do you think you’ve spent on beef in your life? A metric shit-ton. That’s the, that’s the full, that’s the full load right there. Yeah. Yeah, I, I have no idea. Yeah. NoYou gotta sit, sit back sometime and just think, like, “Over the years I’ve probably did about, you know, $2,000 this month. “Well, the next year I took that job and then it’s five, and then it’s 20, and next thing- Yeah. you know it’s like, you know, I’m at a quarter million dollars in beef I’ve bought so far, you know? Yeah, I’d, I’d probably throw up if I actually sat down to do that. Like, “Oh, ooh, what did I do? “”What did I do? “Well, you- But then I look at my wive- my wife’s therapy, and I’m like, “Oh, it’s not that bad. “Yeah. Yeah. At the house. But at the end of the day too, you’re feeding your family. Yes. It’s got you where you’re at right now. Yeah. You’re doing podcasts. You’re- I know, holy cow. Like, like I said, everything, just the relationships that have been- Yeah. formed throughout this journey has, has been-life-changing. Yeah. It really is. Like, I’ve created life-lasting relationships. Pure new. Mm. Well, man, I’m super proud of you. I love what you’re doing, I love what the mission’s about. Thank you for your service. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Yeah. Appreciate, uh, appreciate the insights on the, uh, old fashioneds as well. Oh, yeah. So well everybody, uh, that’s the Blueprint, and, uh, till next time, we’ll see ya.