Episode 63 – Gallery DeFi

It started with a vision and ended with a mission, and now we’re on the mission side. And the mission is, you know, make art more accessible and, and grow opportunities and collab with the, you know, the artists and offer levels of participation for, for artists and, and collectors or visitors. Um, not everybody can buy a piece, but they want it so bad. Yeah. They’ll take a picture. Yeah. That they can la- you know, they have that to look back on, but how can we get them something? You’re getting in front of all these artists that you really feel are, represent the type of art that you wanna have in there. Yeah. And you get to sit with them and watch how they do things, so I’m sure you’re learning a lot from that. Is that- Yeah, 100%. Um, and it’s a cool thing to see ’cause, I mean, art, there’s multiple different ways to do kind of the same thing or get to that- Right. end kind of goal. Besides originality, uh, one thing we look at is do we have that kind of representation whether it’s the medium- Yeah. Mm-hmm. or just the style, and then how does that style kind of work off of what we already have? For us it’s important to get people in the door. We want the person to come in and feel, uh, know, the, the creation and feel what the artist worked so hard on. What do you do? I do the business. What does he do? The art. Well, go talk to him. YeahRight? Totally. YeahYou know what I mean? Hey everybody, welcome back to The Blueprint. Uh, today I have Gallery DeFi back in. I’ve got Travis and Kyle here. They’re gonna break down and tell us a little bit about what’s going on at the shop and, uh, you know, give us an update. Uh, there’s been a lot going on in that amount of time, and, you know, there’s been some cool stuff happening. If you could, do me a favor and, uh, subscribe at the bottom. It’s gonna help me get some stories out, gonna help me get more of these people out in front of you guys, and, uh, just get the exposure up, so appreciate that. I love you. We love you too. So, um, let’s talk about you for the first couple minutes. You got a new place here. Um, I bet you don’t ever get the, conversation flipped- Flipped back on me in the other direction. So let’s talk about that real quick. How, where are we at, how did we get here, and how does it feel to have a, a home to do this kind of’Cause I think last time we were, like, in the side office of a- Yeah. another business. Yep. And so to be able to grow this the way that you have, uh, I would love to kind of take some of that shine light in your direction. Hm. Well, thank you. Honestly, like, it’s been really cool. Um, I walked into thisI, I was looking for another place. Uh, I wanted it to be kind of, uh, the vibe, I just wanted it to really kind of match the history of the culture 0 of the town and somethingLike Marfa, Texas is really cool to me, right? Uh, how somebody took something really cool and put it in something really old. Um, so I was looking for something that had a vintage feel to it. Um, I looked around at a bunch of small towns and local to me, 20, 30 minutes within driving range, and I was like, “What little town can I go find that’s just a hole in the wall, you know-” Right. ” and go put this thing that doesn’t really fit inside that area? “You know, and so um, I looked at 3 or 4 other places, and when I walked into this one, it was kind of like a shotgun bar type of a straight down, had this elevated platform in it, and I thoughtI immediately, uh, could see it. Mm-hmm. I just, it just clicked, and I was like, “Man, I’ve got to have this place. “And so I turned, and I looked at my wife who was looking with me at a well, and she was smiling, and I was nodding-my head, and she was nodding her head, and so we played it coy as we, you know, talked about it for a little bit, and then literally pulled the trigger on it the next day. Oh, wow. And, uh, uh, it was, it was pretty cut and dry once we got to that point, but we had spent the next, I don’t know, two, two and a half weeks every day building this thing out exactly the way we wanted to. And so, uh, man, honestly, a dream come true. When you walk in the door, it’s a big smile on my face. It’sThe team seems pretty lax and enjoying the environment. Mm-hmm. It’s very creative, uh, bringing art, and, you know, some of the technology and stuff that kind of mixes into this 111-year-old building is, is really cool, man. Like, so, um, I don’t know, man. I just feel like I’m a part of history inside of this building. Like, I think about all the hands that have worked in this room, you know? Mm-hmm. ThisI heard it used to be a hospital. I heard it- Oh, wow. You know, it used to be a boutique. It used to be all kinds of things. So it’s, it’s clothed people. It’s saved people’s lives. It’s done so many things, and so I want to do research on the front up there just to kind of show, like, where, who’s been here, who’s lived here, you know, in all black and white photos just- Yeah. all down the side. So I don’t know, man. Really cool. Thanks for pointing that out. For sure. But, uh, it, it’s been- No, it looks great. It’s been a breath of fresh air. I know it’s important to you, and ob- obviously you do more than just this, right? Yeah. This is just like an outlet for you- Mm-hmm. to, you know, um, do what you do. it’s cool to me because you have an agency here. Yeah. Working on other people’s brands. And then you have your brand as an artist, and then- Yeah. now this back here, so, um, if you’re in Caddo Mills, which, you know, it’s out here. I think it’s growing though. We saw- Yeah. a lot of development- Yeah. so eventually I just feel like it’s gonna be an extension of Rockwall, so. Yeah, yeah. When you get down, down the road here, there’s a brand new high school there. They’re putting in like 3800 homes across the way over here. I mean, it’s just, it really is just- Definitely grow. the next wave coming this way. You know? And Travis is gonna be out here asking you where to look for fossils, so I think you’ve decided- No, I already know where. Yeah. Yeah. They’re out here, you know. Yeah. I mean, they’re- Like going up to Ledonia. Yeah. Just a little bit further. Yeah. But not much. Just keep going. Yeah. Mm-hmm. uh, but yeah it’s been cool, man. We got aWe’re a growing team, and it’s, it’s been really cool to have the agency and stuff in here as well, so, appreciate that, man. For sure. Yeah. And we can speak to the growing team ’cause your guys work with us on a, on a weekly basis. YeahSo, uh, keep us, you know, how we want to look online, and, uh, we’re, we’re appreciative of that, so I think it’s important- Yeah. that we kind of talk about your side of the- Yeah. coin real quick. That is cool. We’re, we’re always trying to build partners out. You know, we, we really are kind of hand selecting the people that we want to do business with because we want to do business long term with people. Mm-hmm. We wanna, we wanna m- oh, look, I’m not trying to make $5 and, and get out of there or overcharge somebody for a month and do something. That doesn’t do anything for me and my business and my name- Right. you know, specifically, but we’re trying to build long term partners that are like, you know, telling our story of these guys did X for us. Right. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that means a lot to us- For sure. to have those kind of partners- Awesome. and, you know, you guys, so. Well, uh, just a big kumbaya over here. Uh, but, uh, s- back to your original question, uh, what have we been up to? Um, if you don’t know, we, uh, opened, uh, Gallery DeFi in West Dallas. Uh, it’s a collection of really super talented people like these guys. Uh, I think we have 46-ish artists. You know, we’re adding more, uh, revolving some of them out. Um, you know, but the main idea for us is to make art more accessible for everyone, um, people that come in and visit, uh, people that want to do s- stuff in a space surrounded by art, uh, but more importantly for us is, is the opportunity to work with you guys, um, you know, tell your story- Mm-hmm. uh, through, you know, the way that you want to tell it, but then also work with different companies and groups that wanna, you know, work with artists and just kind of be a conduit and a, you know, easy access to, you know, opportunity for, for everyone. So, um, it’s been fun. Yeah. Really fun. Go for- We did it in 2 or 3 weeks just like you. We- It took our t- our d- d- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeahIt took about 3 weeksReally quickYeah, yeah. Exactly. No, I was a part of that growth. I, I know how that, how that was. Well, before we jump back into where you’ve gone from this point- Mm-hmm. like, if you guys could just discuss, like, who you are and what role you play- Mm-hmm. in the gallery. Not just’Cause there’s a, there’s a, a role you play going up to start date and there’s- Mm-hmm. a role you play after start date. So just tell a little bit about yourselves individually- Sure. and then talk about what went into building this to begin, and then what has really transitioned after you got in there. I think it’s important for Travis to kind of start that because all of this started with something that he did originally, uh, and then from, like, the creative angle, he’s spearheaded that. He’s w- I mean, you know, he’s worked with, eh, all the artists and, and it’s his vision from, from an artistic/creative standpoint, so I feel like you set the tone on that. Yeah, so it’s definitely been a trek. Start- the i- idea and concept kind of started back 2018, uh, with a friend of mine, Buddy, and then, um, wanted to create an immersive art gallery. The ice- uh, Museum of Ice Cream had just opened up, was getting lots of traction, and people were leaving Dallas to go to these specific type of events- Mm-hmm. and, uh, museums, galleries and everything, and really wanted to do that here in Dallas. And so, ended up partnering with a gallery there at the Crescent in 2018, opened up a thing called Psychedelic Robot, um, did about 3 iterations of that, and then the opening weekend of the third one that you were in, and you were in the second one as well- Mm-hmm. opening weekend of the third one was the same weekendit was March 20th, 2020, and, uh, it was when the NBA shut down, so- Yeah. Kind of got to shut that one down pretty quick. From COVID. Yeah, from COVID. Mm-hmm. And then, um, just had that itch to really want to do something not bigger and better but just the right way, my way. Mm-hmm. Not my way’s the right way, but- Yeah, yeah. um, just wanted to do- to continue it on, everything- Mm-hmm. not let it die. And so, uh, Kyle had been helping me out as, on the management side of my art career, and then we were able to partner on that and bring in another friend, Trey, and were able to acquire a building there in West Dallas, so n- theSome people were wanting to go north, be Frisco and kind of that area. But really wanted to keep it true, be close to the downtown, kind of the grunge, and really find a, a large building, and we did. Mm-hmm. And then lots of construction. It was an older building. Um, probably, I believe it was 1926 when it was built, uh, 2 separate addresses, so we got to get those both into one. Asbestos, uh, new roof- Mm-hmm. AC. Uh- City of Dallas. We love you guys now though, but city of Dallas in the beginning, we didn’t know everyone that- Yeahwe needed to know. So just, you know, it’s a learning process. Mm-hmm. Definitely. And then, um, finally got the CO and then we were able to start getting artists in there. Mm-hmm. And, uh, Risk Rock wasShout out my man, Risk. He was one of the first ones to come out in 2023 and grace the front of the building with a massive mural- Mm-hmm. like 210 feet long and, definitely one of the biggestPretty sure it’s his biggest in Texas. And then, Real quick on Risk. Uh, if you don’t know who Risk Rock is, just go into Google, search him. Um, he’s the godfather of graffiti and kind of, when he said, “graced the building,” it was important on the timing of that, because he had to take a chance on us as a lot of other artists did to come. Mm-hmm. Uh, but having someone kinda at the top of their game, uh, take a chance and believe in what we’re doing, and at the same time, he’s kind of the person that’s attributed with bringing street art into the gallery setting. So it really, you know, proved our point, if we can get- Mm-hmm. the Michael Jordan, let’s call it, of a- of an industry. So it, it, that was kind of a surreal moment, honestly. ‘Cause he reached out like, “We can get RISK. “And I was like, “Well, how? “YeahAnd that’s another story you can get into- Yeah. but continue. Yeah. But, um, but yeah. So got RISK out, and then as he was there and then other artists coming in, it was just kind of walking through this empty rectangle and kind of pitching what we’re kind of planning and everything. Mm-hmm. it was, uh, not a little difficult. People kind of look at you a little crazy, but, um, it’s cool to definitely see it all come to fruition. So fuel and curation took about 10 months, 10, 12 months, and then we were finally able to open there- Mm-hmm. March 20th. So my personal job was, uh, artist curator of the building. So it was really reaching out to a lot of artists and people that I’d worked with in the past. Mm-hmm. I mean, ’cause we’re, wanna work with people you get along with and people that aren’t necessarily a diva or- Mm-hmm. kind of whatever, and we wanted to have fun. And so, um, thankfully w- we were able to get a, uh, large roster of artists, kind of let them have fun, create off the canvas, and kinda just had, allowed them to pitch us what they wanted to do. Mm-hmm. And then we’d find the best way to kind of organize it within the gallery and the flow, and what we already knew, what was going on and going to be put in, and, um, curation part was the best, or it was just, it’s always fun- Yeah. the creation part of it. And I was there hands-on really with every artist working, um, and helping just there as an extra hand. And so I’ve greatly enjoyed that time as well. ‘Cause you get to hang out with a lot of people I hadn’t met in person before. And, um, it’s also people I’ve been maybe following on Instagram for years. Mm-hmm. Also people I’ve looked up to as an art, as artists. So, uh, so that was great. And then, um, then we finally got the place open. Yeah. I’m sure you too getting, first of all, I wanna get into how you pick some people, but also once you’ve picked them, learning from their style of creation, right? Everyone is completely different in the way that they execute, um, much like when I, uh, interview entrepreneurs over here. I’m, as much as I’m, like, trying to share your story to everybody else, I’m gleaning your wins and how you did them. Mm-hmm. And I, it’s like I- I could never, I could go to all these different conferences and have one hour I get to listen to somebody, but I get 60 or 70 different people at the top of their game to sit in these chairs and kinda- Yeah. show us what works, right? Mm-hmm. You’re getting in front of all of these artists that you really feel are, represent the type of art that you wanna have in there. Yeah. And you get to sit with them and watch how they do things. So I’m sure you’re learning a lot from that. Hm. Is that- Yeah, 100%. Um, and it’s a cool thing to see, ’cause, I mean, art there’s multiple different ways to do kind of the same thing or get to that- Right. end kind of goal. Um, yeah. Uh, one thing is j- d- you don’t wanna, like, hover over people. You don’t- Yeah. You want to give the, an artist their space. Yeah. And kind of let in then a lot of past projects of mine, um, you do have that. And it’s always not that kind of best creative, uh, environment- Mm-hmm. per se. So definitely wanted to feel them out and just see what vibe they, w- which direction they wanted to go in. Do they need a beer? Yeah. Is it, okay, they don’t drink. Well- Yeah. we’ll, uh, we’ll kind of music and everything. Yeah. Just kind of let them set the tone and then be there as a, as a helping hand. Mm-hmm. But, uh, the pride was great. I mean, it was really cool seeing RISK paint. Um, mean, that’s a process. Of course you’ve always kind of wondered and everything. Mm-hmm. And so that was very cool to see. Um, then Gregory Siff coming in and we, he did the whole stage behind, uh- Mm-hmm. the background of that, and hadn’t necessarily created that large before. So with that I was working with him to- No. help create that large. Gregory-Gregory, if he was here, he would say the same thing. Um, like you said, he’s mastered his icon style, which we have in the gallery. And if you know Gregory Siff’s work, you- Mm-hmm. you know what we’re talking about. Uh, but one thing that happened in the gallery is we allowed artists to do something for the first time. Um, whether that be the scale of things or just actual different, uh, templates. And, uh, you know, he was, he had, um, a writer’s block, let’s call it, and Travis does large scale. He kind of worked backwards almost, uh, doing larger murals and then kinda coming down this way opposed to going the other direction. Mm-hmm. And he was able to kinda get him out of that writer’s block by just kind of simply getting it started. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then, but what was cooler on, from that, from my lens is seeing, uh, him get to interact with these people he’s revered and looked up to. Not only learn from them, but also kinda give them some game. Mm-hmm. Um, and that happened a number of times. Um, even with b- Yeah, another one with, uh, BooBoo Stewart- Mm-hmm. coming in as kind of sh- pitched him the idea ’cause wanted to, a transition from all the craziness out there in the gallery- Mm-hmm. into Zach Saucedo’s Nothing Room. And so, saw his sculp- first saw his sculptures, the biggest ones was probably like 4 or 5 feet tall, and didn’t necessarily know how to create something 17 feet tall. But-kind of took about, like, 2, 3 months going back, me just randomly texting him like- Mm-hmm. “Yo, we can still do this thing. “Like- Yeah. I have everything set up. I’ve got a good friend that welds, he’ll be there in the morning. And so he came in, uh, one night, we went out to eat, and, uh, just sitting there at the table, sketched out kind of what he wanted to do, and the next morning- Mm-hmm. showed up and, um, he wasLike, he’s a grandmaster martial artist as well. Right. And so he’s bending this rebar with his shins- Travis has a man crush. and his neck and, and everything. And then, um, 8 days later, 16 hours a day, we had a 17-foot tall plaster sculpture done. Yeah. And, uh, so that was tre- but we were both learning how to really create it as we went. Mm-hmm. And, um, we were both all in. And that’s the other beautiful thing is, uh, when these artists were coming in to create at the gallery, um, they wanted to do more. And everybody really went above and beyond to kind of what we had originally discussed, and put a lot of intent and detail and thought into their installations. So very grateful- Mm-hmm. for all of that. And, um, beautiful thing to see come together. When you started to pick out those different artists as you were curating this thing, give me a list of, like, 2 or 3 things that you tried to look for in an artist that you thought, “This is us. “Mm-hmm. Top is originality. Yes. And really wantingI mean, ’cause Instagram all day and just have been seeing art all day, every day for over a decade. Mm-hmm. And so wanting that original per- And also artists know where, like, an original thing came from, or where that idea or concept came from- Mm-hmm. um, if it’s been copied. And so really wanted originality in that person that did that thing, eventually. Right. So, um, originality was good. Um, fun, like, uh, just a good person, like, easy to get along with and work with. Mm-hmm. And, um, you can kind of start on this, to tell and feel somebody out just with those initial conversations. Mm-hmm. Um, so been good to work with, and umI think, I think also, besides originality, uh, one thing we look at is do we have that kind of representation, whether it’s the medium- Yeah. Mm-hmm. or just the style, and then how does that style kind of work off of what we already have? Um, because if you’ve been in the place or you’ve seen any pictures, it’s very, um, put together in a sense of it almost seems more planned than it really was. Mm-hmm. Some of the, uh- It was very plannedWell, from the artist contribution- Yeah. like some of the symbolisms and some of the things that are almost coincidental- Yeah. um, and it, it just kind of flows. So to bring an artist in at various stages, whether at the beginningAt the beginning, it was a little easier because we had white walls, we had space we needed to fill. Mm-hmm. But now, um, it’s like, how are they gonna look in here? How is it gonna work with the, you know, the vibes that we have? Mm-hmm. ‘Cause you’ve been there, it’s like a community. Yeah. We- Yeah. You know, all of our artists come in on a, on a daily basis, in and out, and uh, utilize the space when, if it makes sense for them. Yeah. So how does that work? And then, you know, are they going to help us uplift and create opportunities? Are they collaborative mindset? Mm-hmm. Whether that be with just us, but other artists, and um, it’s hard to know if people are easy to work with until you work with them, but, um, we’ve had a pretty good track record so far. Um, and then I think moving forward now, ’cause the number one question we get now is how do I get my art in there, or- Sure. here’s my art, how do weYou know, and that’s a challenging thing to do because we got to respect the artists that are already there and put the sweat and the tears in the beginning- To building it, yeah. of the process and took the chance, and there’s opportunity for you guys to come in and, you know, evolve your space, which- Yep. your space is soon gonna be evolved with you and Tex. Mm-hmm. And, um, that’s cool because that’s the representation of you guys working together, collaborating, but now we can separate and shine light- Mm-hmm. on each one of you guys. Mm-hmm. And that’s necessary. So for us to have that model, and then also try to keep new people coming in- Yeah. and being open is a challenge that we, you know, we face all the time. I, I sent him another artist yesterday that is different, but I think could work in our, our space, and they’re reaching out to us. Yeah. Um, and it just becomes a, “Okay, let’s start the conversation,” or, “Let’s- Mm-hmm. set a, a follow-up in a couple of months. “You know, “This is kind of gonna be changing. “Um, and that’s a good problem to have. Uh, you know, we got 16,000 square feet, and sometimes we’re like, “We should have got 18. “Yeah, yeah. It fills up quick. Yeah, it fills up quick, but, you know, um, another thing that we just started doing, justThis is kind of a caveat, but, uh, we have a wall in there that doesn’t have, you know, anything going on planned, so we’re gonna convert it for art teachers- Mm. to display their art. So that’s gonna kinda open the door for, you know, um, people- Young artists, yeah. Young artists, teachers that are talking to these youngOr working, um, on a day-to-day basis with the future, uh, of the creative space. Mm-hmm. Um, so just kind of finding creative ways to get more, uh, contributions- Mm-hmm. in a way that seems organic and not, you know, forced, because- Mm. uh, you know, there’s 40-plus y- uh, of you guys. Yeah. And, you know, how do we kinda balance that is, is really the challenge, I think, on a curation standpoint now. Mm-hmm. Uh, I think it’s a little more challenging now than it was kinda leading up to it- Mm-hmm. for the balancing, so. And as those artists have come through, uh, involvement in the group. Mm. You know, I’ve seen different levels of involvement from all of them. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, did you get what you expected? Were youDid you get less than you expected? Like, what, what were your expectations for these artists when they come in, and, like, is it an every week thing, or did you give them, like, uh, “You never come back. I’ve never seen you again. “I mean, I definitely expect people to come back- Yeah. and be around and, and hang out. But also, people are busy as well. Mm-hmm. Um, like one gentleman, Drigo. Mm. Shots fired. He’s doing- No, when he’s busy, he’s al- He’s doing great. He’s busy. He’s 45 minutes away, everything. He’s doing headquarters of Louis Vuitton. And, and killed his installation and all. I spoke to him, 2 days ago on the phone. He’s gonna be making it down, and he’s been trying to come through and everything, so, but that’s also nothing to hold against somebody either. Yeah. It’s like, um, want what you can give and everything, and not gonna- Mm-hmm. necessarily ask or demand more, but- Mm-hmm. um, we like hanging out, so. Yeah, and another thing is like- Yeah. You wanna come see the creation. proximity, right? So we have 9 countries represented in the gallery. Yeah. Not all of the people live in those countries, uh, but we are spread out. It’s not just a Dallas group of artists. Mm-hmm. I think he might be speaking more to the local community. Correct. Yeah. Um, but again, it’s like, how much do you want to be around? There’s no really requirement. Right. Um, and if there’s something that we can do in this space that’s gonna elevate your career or elevate, you know, an opportunity, you know, we wanna be that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, there’s no expectation to come around. And we’ve even had a, a few s- Leah, she’s flown in a few times- Yeah. to come in, hang out, and, uh, do a few things. She’s coming in again next week. So, um, definitely grateful for her and- Yeah. And on that note-people coming in and seeing it. On that note of collaboration, that’s a cool one, because Leah’s got an installation. If you go to our social media, it’s one of the most captured installations- Mm-hmm. ’cause it’s, you know, it’s an all-encompassing, uh, and it’s a cool transition. And, you know, there’s a lot of photos taken in there. Um, and what that’s yielded is an opportunity for her to come in and work with a hospitality group that we’ve worked with in the past. Mm-hmm. And they were able to reach out to her, and she’s gonna come execute her brand inside their brand. Mm-hmm. So that’s just a, a live case of, you know, why we do what we do. It’s kinda bigger- Yep. than just selling a piece or- Mm-hmm. growing the brand. It’s creating opportunities to- Mm-hmm. um, for both sides. ‘Cause we like the hospitality group, so, you know, they, they had a vision that they needed, and they’re able to easily talk with the artist and bring the artist out. Mm-hmm. And, uh, when she comes out, she’ll probably, uh, do something for us while she’s here- Yeah. Mm-hmm. um, which is, which is a beautiful thing. UmBut another part of that, when it comes down to, like, uh, the artists themselves, um, that’s gotta be a delicate balance, too, of, like, expectations on you guys- Mm-hmm. from when they put their art in. They’re like, “I want it sold tomorrow. “Mm. You know, or, “I need to shine really big. “”I need to get a million followers out of this thing overnight,” right? How do you guys play with the egos? I mean, we’re, you know, we’re all putting our baby out there in front of people, and how do you guys deal with the egos? ‘Cause some don’t appreciate it when it doesn’t go well for them. Yeah, um, s- nobody’s necessarily said or really been hounding us, like, “Sell my stuff right now. “Uh huh, yeah, yeah. Um, but also, it takes the gallery getting traction- Mm-hmm. and getting open. A gallery business is a hard business- Yeah. to be in, and so, we’ve really wanted to create something different and something new. And, uh, now that’s finallyEyes have been coming on it for 6 months, the past 6 months. And so, now really starting to get that traction, and making sales almost weekly now. And so, things are picking up, and we are still trying to sell that art, yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. Well, I, I think that there’s 2 things to that, you know. YouOr, more than that. You got, you got economical things that people kinda consider. I think art purchases go like this. Yeah. And it’s seasonal or it’s, uh- Yeah. you know, it, it just depends. There’s a lot of other factors that go into the acquisition of fine art, uh, which is one thing that we can’t control. Black Friday’s coming. Yeah. Uh, well, I think we’re gonna beI think we’re gonna give our self a day off for, for that, so. Nice. Right? Uh, I think that’s, like, one of the first days off- Yup. we’ve collectively had in a while. Mm-hmm. But, um, you know, and there’s so many options when you come in. And I think peopleIt’s almost like a 2phased, uh, thing when people come in and experience the gallery. They’re overwhelmed at first- Yeah. and then they double back- Yeah. and they go, “I like these pieces,” or, “I wanna”- Mm-hmm. “bring my designer buy. “Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, it’s very few instances where someone’s like, “I need that. I’m taking it off the wall. “Mm-hmm. “I’m leaving with it today. “Yeah. Uh, and that’s just the nature of what, you know, um, acquiring art is. Yeah. And it’s an important purchase. uh, but also there’s so many options. Yeah. Right? And it’s like, “Oh, I, you, I thought this one spoke to me and I-” Mm-hmm. ” made my way over here. Now this one speaks to me. “Yeah. Um, so it comes and flows. Yeah. Uh, if you ask Minji, she would say that, uh, we’re just, that’s all we do is sell art-because we’ve had, she’s had a great, um, you know, out the gate, um, presence at the gallery and- Uh-huh. um, you know, we would love to sell everyone equally but that’s just- Mm-hmm. how it goes. Yeah. Uh-huh. Um, and, you know, if there’s, another thing that we’ve set out as far as structure-wise is we’re not trying to control the artist opportunity. Sure. Right? Uh, if you call me and were like, “Hey man, there’s this gallery down the street from you guys. Love to introduce you,” whatever, but they wanna show my pieces, the old mindset of a, a gr- a gallerist is, “No. “Uh, “This is Te- I get you, I don’t just get you in these walls. I have your rights to all your art in Texas. “And that’s more of a gatekeeper- Mm-hmm. and there’s only one person winning there. Whether you’re selling a lot of their art or you’re not, you’re still capping the opportunity, so, um, with that said, we, we want the over e- exposure or the, the m- the maximum exposure in our region of an artist because it just grows the brand. Right. It makes, you know, a more compelling- Mm-hmm. story that we can say, “Well, if you like these couple pieces,” ’cause we talked about the, the confines of the space- Mm-hmm. that we have, um, there’s a couple more down the street. Yeah. Go see so-and-so and they’ll show you, you know- Mm-hmm. Brandon’s work. Um, and that’s kind of important to us to communicate to the artists as well. It’s like, don’t treat us as your only option. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right? Use this to kinda create more opportunities- Mm-hmm. and more opportunities. I mean, you call me and say, “Hey, are, y’all gonna have this piece? “And it, “I think it’s gonna be a good fit for this show I’m doing,” and wherever. Mm-hmm. We’ll make that hap- like- Yeah. that’s, we’re not here to, to gate, to- Yeah. gate keep in order- Yeah. to control. Yeah. Um, and I think from the, I think we’re a disruptor. I know we’re a disruptor in the t- in the minds of some people that have been doing it for a long time. Mm-hmm. And I, that’s okay. Like- Mm-hmm. that’s, that’s kinda, I think, the way to be most impactful is not to just get in line over here, it’s to stand over here and throw a wrench at this over here. Yeah. Because the reason that it’s not working, we’ve both experienced on the artist side. It’s, you get taken advantage of, know, a lot of communication, it, it’s just not really for the artist, right? Right. Um, so that’s important to us. Mm-hmm. You know, and I, I know from, from my side as an artist, it’s been really cool for, you know, you guys do a really good job of feedback. You know? “Hey, so-and-so is checking this out,” or, “I got some feedback on this one the other day,” or, “People came through and they all wanted us do this. “Like, that’s good for the artist even if the artist doesn’t, um, necessarily sell a piece or do something like that. That is fuel that what they’re doing is working. Mm-hmm. And so those things that you guys are doing, and I, I’m, I’m saying this for the benefit of all the other artists out there that’ll hear this or that of artists that come through the gallery, you guys do a great job of supporting and communicating and talking to, uh, the artists on the inside so they know that their stuff is being heard- Mm-hmm. Right? Because we create stuff to say a message. We create stuff to let you feel where my heart’s at- Yeah. or to, to let you see visually what I’m thinking and hopefully that you connect with that, right? And on the other end, if there’s someone that goes, “And I got that, thank you for talking to me about that,” and they had a good experience, you guys do a great job of going, “Hey, so-and-so last night was talking about your stuff,” or- Yeah. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know? I think that that comes from if you have tattoos. Mm-hmm. Right? And you have a good tattoo artist, you’ll- Mm-hmm. get compliments- Mm-hmm. of like your tattoo. Yeah. And it’s kind of misdirected. Like, I shouldn’t be hearing it. Thank you- Yeah. I appreciate it- Yeah. but I didn’t do anything but- Yeah. pay the bill and sit there and take the pain. Mm-hmm. The talented person is the tattoo artist. Mm-hmm. So in our, we, we’re the, the, the voice, we’re the receiver of the message- Mm-hmm. uh, in these instances and, you know, we’re doing field trips now, which is- Mm-hmm. something we could talk about in a little bit. Mm-hmm. But we get all these kids and they get so inspired- Mm-hmm. and we always ask them what their favorite one, it, it’s important for the artist to understand that the impact they’re making on just a, a generation of creatives- Yeah. opposed to just a, someone that’s got money and wants to put this in their house ’cause- Right. it matches- Right. up something. And I call- They like blue. E- exactly. Yeah. I called Cristobal the other day, uh, we had needed to catch up and I just, first thing I told him was, “You would be surprised at how much, uh, you know, how people respond when we tell them the medium that you use. “Yeah. And it’s like, uh, it’s one of the things that we- Yeah. do with everyone, it’s just, I wish we had a camera that we could just snap that instant reaction. Yeah. ‘Cause that’s important ’cause you- Mm-hmm. spend all your life to learn how to do a technique and then- Mm-hmm. you lean into it and, you know, artists, uh, you know, all people are insecure or uncertain of things, but artists seem to kinda skew that way a little bit more- Mm-hmm. when you think it would be the opposite. Yeah. Like, look, they’re, they’re revered, they’re considered cool. Mm-hmm. A lot of people incorporate artists for that cool element, but-the creation part is, like, a lonely place- Mm-hmm. and it’s, like, an unsure place. And if I’m gonna be vulnerable and put this out, how is it gonna be received? Mm-hmm. So it’s important to, to hear the, the positive. Mm-hmm. Uh, when we get the negative, we don’t really always share that information. We kinda take that- “This guy sucks. “But, um, no. Just kidding, ’cause we don’t really get a lot of that at all. Um, so- Except for Brandon’s stuff. Yeah. I’m joking. That Supers Malone. Supers Malone, baby. Well, we spent quite a bit of time talking about kinda your role kinda setting this thing up, but how has your role gone from the facilitator- Mm-hmm. to the salesman? Janitor. Yeah. Uh, I think we’re all the janitor. Yeah, the janitor. Um, when you do something that big and you got, you know, so many things, you know, we always have to do a little bit. If you come in on a random day, you would think that, you know, we were hourly employees there, just mopping. I’ve seen you mop. Yeah. There you go, you’ve seen me mop. Uh, my role is just kinda to do, you know, the business side, really. Uh, we collaborate across the board on everything. Um, but just, like, our set-up in, uh, Travis’s art career, left brain/right brain, I’d always f- forget which one is which. But it allows the artist to be creative and allows me to focus on the stuff that is necessary- Mm-hmm. to grow a brand in today’s world. Um, and then, uh, in the gallery, it’s just relationship management on the artist front, but also just kinda being the conduit to us and the outside world. Um, talking to the people that call just to ask our hours- Mm-hmm. but all the way, talking with the mayor and these other people about large projects, you know, that take time to cultivate. Mm-hmm. Uh, speaking with all the kinda heads of, you know, the industries that are around us and, and getting the name out there, um, just from an organizational standpoint. So, uh, operationally, that’s kinda my, my lane. It’s always been my lane. Uh, growing, growing the business, uh, is, is a group effort. It takes all of us, um, and it’s a, it’s a cohesive, you know, unit. And I don’t like titles- Mm-hmm. because one day you might have to be this, and one day- Yeah. you have to be this. And if you put a title on it, then you start thinking, “Well, that’s not my responsibility. “Yeah. Right. That’s, that’s som- but, but- Mm-hmm. in a small, in, in a startup, essentially, it’s everybody’s responsibility ’cause you’re, you don’t have the ability to’Cause it’s also important that we bring in people that we trust. Yeah. Right? And you don’t wanna pass that off until you know it could be done to a standard that you can do it. So, uh, we steer away from titles and just kind of, you know, all hands on deck. But the admin, uh, operational stuff kinda falls in my lane. Yeah. Like, I talk with your guys on the website stuff and- Mm-hmm. making sure that, you know, we are building the brand in the way that we want to. Um, yeah. Mm-hmm. And so has that changed once you crossed over the threshold? Like, did some stuff fall off? Did some stuff pick up? Like, what was the, what was the one thing that changed the most from the time that you- I think, uh, just, like, easily, like, the first part was more just organiz- you know, the, the money. Right? Making sure we had the money to do the curation and do all the things that we needed to do logistically, getting the artist here. You know, Travis had a vision in, you know, where he wanted him and how he wanted him, and then we gotta get him here, contracts, and we all worked through all these things. Mm-hmm. Um, so it was more, you know, logistical at first. Yeah. Uh, and now it’s more operational, right? Um, we s- we posted something the other day. It started with a vision and ended with a mission, and now we’re on the mission side. Mm-hmm. Um, and the mission is, you know, make art more accessible and, and grow opportunities and collab with the, you know, the artist. Mm-hmm. And offer levels of participation for, for artists and, and collectors or visitors. Um, not everybody can buy a piece, but they want it so bad. Yeah. They’ll take a picture. Yeah. And that, they can la- you know, they have that to look back on, but how can we get them something? Mm-hmm. Prints, merch. And building all that out, which that’s another subsection- Yeah. of a, a job requirement. But that’s been fun because it allows us to work with the artist and kinda do things that are, are creative and hands-on because- Mm-hmm. I’m a business-minded person as far as output, but I have a real creative, you know, approach to it, from, you know, that’s what I did before is, you know, conceptualization and, you know, creative thinking. So it, it works really well, um, in this environment. So, um, there’s times that I’ll kick him ideas and if he likes it, it, it comes to fruition. But there’s kind of a, a pecking order. Like, it, it flows this way for implementation on the creative side, because I don’t wanna step on his ideas or his vision, or maybe he already had something for that wall- Mm-hmm. next. Yeah. Right? So it flows that way, and then the other end it flows this way for, you know, certain things. And, um, you know, it’s a group conversation. You know, sometimes we reach out to the artist like, “Hey, you know, how would this best work for you? “Mm-hmm. And then we try to implement and, you know, execute on that. And then a lot of people are now starting to come in and ’cause of the space, and they wanna do their thing. They wanna do their birthday or they wanna host their whatever. And now, it’s like, “Okay, how do we protect the brand? “I’m not gonna say- Yeah. the conversation that we were just having about someone that pitched an idea- Yeah. that we had to unfortunately say, “We can’t do that. “Yeah. Um, because that’s protecting the brand. Yeah. Um, but, uh, we have to think creatively ’cause, you know, certain things are gonna open us up to people, um, that may not have come to a gallery because what they thought a gallery was. Mm-hmm. Um, and th- see, these aren’t my words. I might feel the same way, but, uh, I was telling you the other day, a common thread lately is coolest gallery in Texas or coolest gallery in Dallas, and now that’s a matter of opinion. Mm-hmm. But it’s cool to hear that from people that may not have come because they came from pilates- Yeah. or they came from a silent disco or a sound bath. Because ultimately, what we’re doing iscreating a comm- community of creatives. Mm-hmm. Right? We had a, a kid come in and sing, uh, at the silent disco, and we’re confident that he’s- Yeah. defending- Gavin Coplan, he is. Like this. His name is Gavin Coplan, um, and his voice is incredible. Yeah. And we had no idea, we had a relationship with people that worked with him. Mm-hmm. But we had no idea that this was in the bag. And they brought him for a sound check and we’re looking at each other like-Well, who the hell is in there singing with no music? Here’s the future. Yeah. LikeIt’s the guy with face tattoos. Yeah. It’s just like, dude. And- Been singing 6 months. Wow. And so then, he had been singing 6 months, and they come in super respectful, super everything. And those are the people we want to work with, right? And then, but sh- it’s also a business, so you gotta pay bills. So you gotta walk the line of, do we need the money? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is it gonna facilitate? Mm-hmm. And sometimes, you know, if you get a price from us, it’s kind of, maybe it’s high. Skewed? It’s more because, you know, it doesn’t really serve what we’re trying to do. Whereas, you know, you’re trying to do something that’s super aligned with us- Yeah. we’re gonna come down, if you have a budget, we’re gonna work with it. Yeah. Like the DMA, uh, the Dallas Museum of Art, they’re trying to host a party- Mm-hmm. for their employees. Mm-hmm. And they, they want to do it at our gallery. Mm-hmm. So it’s like, well, you got a museum- Yeah. that you have access to, so it’s like, of course we wanna do that. So it’s like, where are you at? Where can we meet you? Um, so that’s kind of becoming uh, uh, a lot more of, you know, the intentional focus on a day to day. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause I mean, we get stuff all the time. Yeah. Which is a blessing. Yeah. It means that we’re doing the right thing, butWell, that’s cool. Well, as you’ve gone through and you’ve opened up, um-let’s talk about a few things that you thought it was gonna be doing versus what it truly is doing. You know? Is there anything that particularly stands out? Like was it, did you think it was gonna be heavy in foot traffic- Mm-hmm. or lighter in foot traffic? Or is there more that you had, or did you think that, “I am gonna be doing these types of things inside of there? “Like what, what’s, what’s going on? Definitely a little bit heavier too, but we opened around March, spring break kind of area. And then just in time for summer, hot, and then, um, guess people traveling and everything, but it was really just g- you had, you gotta get those first people into the door, and then people start talking and photographing. So now it’s, I would think it’s really s- starting to pick up now. But, um, but yeah, I mean, you always kind of expect more, I feel like. Mm-hmm. But, um, but yeah. You keep working hard and then itI mean, it’s one of those deals where people don’t see all the work, or some people do. You can’t, right? Some people do ’cause they were part of the journey. Yeah, yeah. But e- once we open it’s like, we didn’t, this just happened overnight. You know? Mm-hmm. I mean, how long you been here? Yeah. Like, we’ve been here for 4 years. Yeah. Uh-huh. We’ve been open for 2 weeks, right? And it’s like, you know, it’s hard to communicate that, but you know, the traffic, the foot traffic, we’re in an area that has got a lot of history but it’s got a lot of growth coming. So it’s not, you’re not getting, you know, the s- the, the foot traffic that you would normally get. So there’s that organic foot traffic, and then the time of the, the year is important. Everyone says don’t open in the summer, uh, but for us, we just needed to get open. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So it didn’t matter what time it was. Yeah. But it’s kind of worked out because it kind of allowed us to, you know, get our bearings, understand what our, our business- For sure. model is. Mm-hmm. And, you know, leading up into the fall season, which is notoriously more event book, um, bookings and- Yeah. things like that, w- now we’re ready. Mm-hmm. And then next year, with the World Cup coming, which is an outlier for a business model- Yeah. summer is not gonna be dead. Next year it’s gonna be quite the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. So being able to have that full year of operations leading into an unprecedented time as far as, um, you know, the Metroplex goes is foreign destination, right? We’re gonna be the host city for all the, the teams, so there’s 32 teams sending their entire media that covers them to kind of branch out to wherever the games are. And see what’s, what’s up with where you guys are at, yeah. And we have 9 games here and the, it’s the most of any host city. So there’s gonna be a lot of presence and it’s gonna be important that DallasAnd there’s a lot of efforts going on right now- Mm-hmm. that we present ourself in a certain way, but from an artist inclusion opportunity standpoint, you get chance to get in front of people that are from all around the world. Yeah. Um, so, uh, back to the first thing is that, yeah, of course you think that the business model’s gonna be based more on 40% ticket sales and 30% art sales. These are made up numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And 30% whatever. And I think that the tickets we’ve played around with the pricing because it’s a numbers game. We want more and more people in- Mm-hmm. and if the tickets were represented more of our revenue, um, that we, we’re counting on, you know, then we would have to keep the price a certain way. But we’ve discovered that the more people we can get in there- Mm-hmm. it’s like a spider web effect. Yeah. This person wants to bring this person in that might be a collector, and we woulda never potentially got that person in the door- Circles overlap. Right. Mm-hmm. Same with the, the, uh, elevated experiences that we do. Mm-hmm. Um, generally when weLike, we have one this evening, it’s a, it’s a, a corporate consulting group that’s hosting their clients, and for us it’s like, “Oh, that’s boring,” right? You hear that- Mm-hmm. and it’s like, “Oh, boring. “But the people that are in the building are, are doing other things and they’re bringing art into their workspace and some of them are collectors and that’s just opportunities that, that come. So I think that that, that s- that transition of thinking it’s gonna be general admission is gonna carry it- Mm-hmm. and what’s really carrying it more is, you know, these different opportunities that we have. Because it, it compounds the art purchases, it compounds the opportunities, um, which is, it’s just a transition- Yeah. uh, of, of, like, what you’re, you know, do we need to cover this or this? And sure, it’s like, “Ah, w- we’re not in the event space. “Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. It, it, we’ve designed it in a way to be versatile. Yeah. Um, we’ve been able to do these different things. Um, but it’s all aroundWe wanna make sure that we don’t lose sight of that. Like, you wanna do your birthday party in here? It’s like, “Uh. “have to charge you, like, like a wedding price. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And then we’re still gonna put restraints around that because w- Yeah. we gotta protect the situation. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, as, as you guys are going through and starting to pick things out, I mean, you’re, I’m sure you’re thinking like at the very beginning, ticket sales are gonna be carrying this load. And as you guys have crossed over you’re like, cool, I like those. Mm-hmm. There’s so many other things that give us so much more exposure. Mm-hmm. And been tagging in on those things. Mm-hmm. Let’s talk a little bit about, um, something that I heard you guys are getting in on and it’s, like, bringing art to the youth. Hm. And what those, what that really means to students who are gonna have the opportunity to come and see what we got. Yeah, I mean, it’s been great. Uh, th- there’s a few different ways that we do the tours with the kids and, um, like this last one yesterday it was kind of just a free-for-all. It was 10, 12 kids, so small. But, um, that was great, but then the other ones it was going through, like me talking about the processes where they, uh, that the artists use, or asking the kids how they thought or what materials were used here. And so you’re getting these engaging type interactions where they’re asking questions about the art and the artists and they’re being opinionated and having fun and kindaand taking pictures, interacting- Mm-hmm. with the artwork as well. Mm-hmm. So it’s, um, always cool to see them light up and just be amazed. And then, um, one group of students, they all had a sketchbook as well, and so they were going around picking their favorite pieces throughout the tour. Mm-hmm. And then at the end of the, the tour, um, they had, like, 20 minutes to sit down there in front of their favorite pieces, sketch those out. Some had just one piece and then others had, like, 4 or 5 favorites. Mm-hmm. And now they’re going around and now it’s a, this cool collage almost of some of my favorite pieces in the gallery also. Mm-hmm. All done on one piece of paper. Mm-hmm. By a 13-year-old. Or no, they’re a little lower. 14. Yeah. No, yesterday was a middle school. Um, we’ve had, um, multiple high schools and thank you Danielle Johnson because it wasn’tShe’s a teacher at Cedar Hill. Mm-hmm. And, um, I guess it was almost too obvious. It wasn’t on our radar in a sense of, like, opportunity. Mm-hmm. Or the space and it fits, it fits, uh, an open window of our business, like, operational hours. Mm-hmm. But I had a teacher reach out and said, “Hey, do you guys offer field trips? “And it was like, I think I’m, “Do we offer field trips,” in my mind. And, well, why don’t we? Yeah. And so then it became we built out, like, a, a package and, you know, we did the whole cast a wide web and, you know, it’s kinda slowly trickling in, but the feedback from the, the 4 schools that we worked with, we have another one next week and we have a few trying to plan it out, uh, right now, is this is more relatable to the students. Mm-hmm. Um, because it’s not 1500s art, it’s not this stuff that they don’t- Mm-hmm. necessarily relate to. Right. Um, and even the teachers. Mm-hmm. Um, because they always, they have to go to the same places- All the time. every year and it’s almost like a f- a breath of fresh air. Um, but it’s also done in a way that the doc- teacher yesterday said this makes it seem more achievable for these students because they’re looking at all these different mediums and they may not have access to this or may not have the skillset for this. It doesn’t mean you stop. Try something else. Try something else. We have Dakota Pratt. He uses, you know, bottle caps that he smashes and t- tacks down and makes beautiful art. And-unless you see that you’re maybe not think about it that way. Mm-hmm. And whether you do that or some kinda other process. Mm-hmm. So I think that that’sHonestly for me it’s been the most rewarding because all the other stuff, you make money, you do all these things, it’s like, it just becomes- Mm-hmm. part of- Right. you know, a day, but, like, seeing the kids asking for our autographs. You don’t need my autograph. They wanted all of our autographs because they wanted to be able to go sell this dollar more. Uh-huh. Right? I was like, “Well, I think we just committed a fel- a federal crime by giving them the, the money. “But it’s just the mindset. It’s like, it’s just so much optimism, so much hope. Yeah. And, uh, that’s important because that’s the next generation of creatives that are gonna impact, you know, all kinds of things. It may not be art. It may be engineering. Mm-hmm. It may be inventing something but it’s keeping that mindset alive. Mm-hmm. Um, and our artists, you know, have done a good job of communicating that. Mm-hmm. It’s all possible. There’s no limitations. So for me that’s been fun, um, and the, and the kids come in and it’s just a whole different clientele than we’re used to dealing with. Yeah. And, you know, some of them are real reserved at first. Because, like, h- you know, it’s just-awkward age for a lot of these kids too. Mm-hmm. But then at the end of it, they’re all running around, asking questions, taking pictures. And- Mm-hmm. That, that, that’s been cool, um, truthfully, so. Yeah. I mean, I can see that you guys are not just giving kids an opportunity to learn, but you’re inspiring kids for whatever it is potentially they wanna do going forward. It’s just giving someone the opportunity for passion. You know? Showing someone an open door that says, “Hey, look-” Mm-hmm. ” you may not have thought about doing X, Y or Z, but here’s the thing. “And it’s a pretty cool thing for a lot of people who’ve invested a lot of their life into, you know, doing their craft. And you may turn some people, you know? Mm-hmm. To, to be great artists one day. Sure. Just by this, this, the school of this, of bringing kids in and giving them the opportunity to see. And, is there certain age genres that you guys are going for? Or is it- No. I mean, honestly it’s, uh, I mean K, kindergarten’s a little young maybe, but just elementary through college. And, and what Travis was speaking to, the experience is gonna be a little different for each age group because of the way that we can present the art. Uh, I, like for younger kids, you go to Duda’s Wall, the, the Manifesto to the Amazon, and there’s a lot of different animals worked into it. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, learn how to look at the art, look deeper than just the surface level. Mm-hmm. Whereas, you know, the older students, even in the college, it’s more about dialing in on, you know, the mediums that you’re working on or just kind of- Mm-hmm. taking things in, asking questions from someone like Travis that’s worked hands-on. Mm-hmm. Some of the things, you know, are more native to him and some of the things, uh, he’s just worked on one time with an artist, right? Mm-hmm. But he can speak to it in a way that gives them guidance and gives them, um, you know, the, the reassurance that, you know, it can be done. Right. Um, and, you know, Trey, uh, the other founder that’s not here with us in this, uh, podcast has a, a friend that he grew up with who’s an art teacher and she brought, uh, Russell to the gallery. Hm. She’s like, “Hey, I know what you guys are doing. I have this student, um, super talented. Brought his artwork-” Mm-hmm. ” in a trunk or in the backseat. “Yeah. Walked it into the gallery and we’re just like, “Hmm. “Was this the bird? Uh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So he’s got 2 pieces. That’s kinda good. Took down one of my pieces, put the bird up. Yeah. So he’s got 2 pieces in the gallery that, you know, he took the photo on a field trip and the other one he took in his free time and then he painted, you know, what the image was. Mm-hmm. Uh, but it was, you know, we, what did we bring him in? Around April? Maybe early May. Yeah. And then so we had his pieces, but we didn’t have them up. And he graduated and he brought his family. They flew in from, I think he’s originally from Las Vegas. Um, he’s here, Mansfield Summit. And they didn’t know where it was gonna be displayed. They knew that we were gonna bring him in the gallery, ’cause, you know, we sent his mom the contWe had to send his mom the contract. Mm-hmm. Which was kinda different. Uh, but then they came in and Travis says sh- he just heard a screech from her, the mom when she saw all the, the, and that’s- It was up on the main wall. And that’s cool. Yeah. You know? Like, um, and that’s, there’s to the, um, question about how do we choose our artists. We have Risk Rock and we have a kid that’s now, you know, his freshman year at UTSA. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I know that that gave him the confidence to say- Mm-hmm. “Okay, I’m going to art school. “Mm-hmm. And now he’s doing big murals. Nice, yeah. And, you know, he might, he might, you know, ascend past a few, few people. 100%. And, and that’s cool because I, and even if we don’t work with him directly, if we get the f- 5 years from now, you see an interview, it’s like, “Oh, the catalyst for me was I went to this one place. “Yeah. And, you know, that’s, that’s, uh, that’s more than, you know, that’s more important than most of the stuff that we do. Yeah. 100%. Um, are there any other avenues that are coming through the gallery that you’re really excited about coming up? As far as things we’re adding? Um, orYeah. I mean, yeah. Exa- I mean, one thing I know that we’ve talked about is Sadie Keller. Okay. Uh, she’s, uh, if you’re in Dallas, you might have heard of her foundation. think she was diagnosed with leukemia around 5, 6, 7. Real young in a- in age, but, uh, we’ve worked with her in the past on different, um, events that she’s done. The Yellow Ball, which is a big fundraiser. And it, it just all goes to stopping, looking for a cure to stop childhood cancer. Um, but she might be one of the most powerful, strong people that I’ve ever witnessed talk. at age 12, age 14, she’s holding a room full of the most important- Right. people in Dallas, right? Mm-hmm. These people that are paying big money to just be there. Yeah. And she’s holding the room. Mm-hmm. Uh, so she does a, uh, a toy drive every, s- I think this is the 12th year they’ve done it. It’s, uh- Mm-hmm. San, uh, Sadie’s Sleigh, Santa’s Sleigh. And we’ll have a drop location at the gallery, uh, so you can donate- That’s cool. toys for, for her organization and they all go to kids in, fighting cancer in the hospital that don’t get Christmas at home. Mm-hmm. So, uh, that, that’s cool. Uh, 2 weeks ago, we just did, um, mammogram poster girls. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Did a, a fashion show art auction to raise, uh, funds and awareness for, um, mammogram poster girls and breast cancer. And what they do is provide mammograms to low income communities. Mm-hmm. We were able to raise, like, $40,000 in one night, um, which is awesome. Yeah. And so aligning with s- things like that, we’re gonna be a, a, a location, uh, for a couple parties for House of Diffa. Which is another big local, uh, charity event. So using our space to give back is, is fun and we have a lot of that coming up. Um, we talked about the World Cup, uh, and the opportunities that’s gonna bring in for everyone. Um, yeah, and I think every day we, you know, I got a call with Groupon. Groupon called us, you know, so-be excited about Groupon. I have a few friends, Jessica Elmore, um, that didn’t wanna come to the gallery until we had a coupon. Oh, okay. But she’s been, uh- Mm-hmm. but now we, you know, we’re on Groupon and just, just that growth. Mm-hmm. You know, the field trips, uh, kind of growing that out because like we said, it’s rewarding and it’s just the opportunity for us to give back. And then we, the, you know, the wall with the teachers. Mm-hmm. Uh, we’re gonna, uh, we have a wall that we’re gonna sell- Mm-hmm. and display art from the teachers, so kind of building that out, uh, is, is exciting. And then, um, I’m sure- You want- I mean, I’m looking really World Cup and using it as an opportunity to curate some specific pieces and installations- Mm-hmm. for that. But then on top of the curation, just the influx of people and being able to show the space and expose all the art- Yeah. to people from all over the world. Mm-hmm. So I’m looking forward to those interactions and kind of those people that we’ll get to meet during that. And then also, I wanna be open every day then. But, um, And not just have these funky hours, but hopefully they’re- Yeah. with all the influx of people, but, um- Yeah. just really taking advantage and seizing that moment. So just that interaction right there, right? How do we, how do we navigate- What interaction? The side eyes. Yeah, yeah. You said you wanted to be open every day and I’m thinking, okay- Yeah. what about in the mornings? Yeah. You know, like, ’cause, because we’re 2 different- Yeah. people in terms of, uh, even hours operation. Yeah. You know, you got morning people, you got night people. Yeah. So go ahead. Well, sometimes you’ll notice when it’s a partnership- Right. someone’s pushing the wheelbarrow- Uh-huh. a lot harder than the other person’s pushing the wheelbarrow, right? And we always do this, you know- Mm-hmm. as you kinda, you know, going through things, right? When it comes down to final decisions, like, how does that get made between, are they debatable? Yeah, yeah. Are they votable? Are they what? Yeah, we’ll, we’ll talk it out, um, and figure it out. Look at the numbers, when we really wanna be up and be there and- Mm-hmm. um- It, it-’cause we are there all day every day kind of already, and so, um- But it’s important, as y- everyone, I think, can relate, no matter what you do- Mm-hmm. you go too hard, you get the burnout phase. And you, you gotta have a little bit of balance and you gotta be able to fill your own cup. And when you set out to do something like this, you obviously make sacrifices and you know you have to con- commit and way beyond what you probably anticipated- Mm-hmm. you know, the, the challenges being. Mm-hmm. But e- once you kinda get there, you also gotta remind yourself, like, the long game. Mm-hmm. If I burn myself out trying to do too much and then it becomes resentment or it becomes I don’t wanna- Mm-hmm. you know, this isn’t doing anything for me the human. Yeah. So that’s why, you know, we, we, we, we gotta remind ourselves, like, you know, you gotta still do stuff for yourself and- Mm-hmm. you know, be supportive in that way. But I don’t think that there’s any, like, set path on how we make decisions. It’s sometimes something’s more important to one person than it is the other, and it’s like having a conversation. It’s really about communication really. Mm-hmm. Um, and when we’re not communicating, it’s like when, like, no decision, there, there’s no definitive-answer. It’s just lingering, right? Yeah. And it’s like sometimes we’ll- ‘Cause you’re on 2 sides of the fence. Yeah, or it’s just not im- as important to one person as the- Yeah. other. Mm-hmm. And so the one that it is important to has gotta, you know, make it important- Mm-hmm. or get off, shit or get off the pot kind of deal. Mm-hmm. Um, but for us, you know, we’ve been friends for 20 years. Mm-hmm. Uh, I used to, I used to say, “We met in college. “And then like, “How long ago? “And I don’t like to say that anymore. Yeah. So just 20 years, you could, you could pick up the, the timeframe. Yeah, what you want. But because of that, you know, we, we, we’ve done it all, you know, as friends, you know? Mm-hmm. Seen our friends get married, been to baby showers. Seen our friends get buried. And, you know, life is more important than that whatever trivial moment it is. Yep. But also just kinda keeping into the context of whatever any 0 a- any one of us 3 is communicating, it’s hopefully it’s for the betterment of the group and just making sure that we respect each other’s opinions and viewpoints. But, you know, if it’s important to you, why? Yeah. And can we make it happen? And if not that, is there a compromise? Is there something in the middle? Um, and we’ve been pretty good at that. You know, it’s, it’s business, you know. Yeah. Some days are better than others. Mm-hmm. Some days are, you know, it might seem a little bit more tension and friction. But I think at the, the bottom of all of it is just because we have that much, you know, desire to, to succeed- Mm-hmm. and to win. And, you know, we’re all, we’re all humans too. We all got other stuff going on in life that doesn’t factor into the other person. Yeah. Um, and I don’t know the challenges that Travis deals with, for example, on painting a mural. Mm-hmm. I’ve seen him do it. I’ve bidded it, I’ve negotiated the pricing, but like, to actually get up there and f- and to do it- Go through it. Yeah. is not something that I can relate to. Yeah. I mean, I can understand it but, uh, but and same thing with him is he doesn’t relate to some of the things that I have to do or that are important in my processes. And it’s just, you know, making, just having grace too- Yeah. with each other, um-The reason I ask is because it is a business based on passion. Mm-hmm. Period,And so, those passions can kind of leak out into other situations- Yeah. you know, when you care about something so much. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I, I, I have noticed personally that you guys do a really good job, whether you shield me from it or not. Like, you guys do a really good job of not chewing each other, right? Like, “Hey, let’s, let’s hear this,” like you just said. “Tell me why it’s important and how do we get to that point, and maybe we can and maybe we can’t, but, you know, I’ll, I’ll stand up if I feel like it’s not a good way to go, but how hard do you feel about this? “Mm-hmm. And we also understand who we are as people. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. So, he knows that if I’m reacting a certain way that it’s- that’s in my character, that’s- Mm-hmm. not out of character. Mm-hmm. Uh, same with Travis. So, it’s, you know. And we understand, like, “Hey, these are your strengths, these are your weaknesses. If it falls in the weaknesses, I’m gonna come over there and, you know, grab it,” right? Mm-hmm. And then I’m gonna- that’s gonna be my responsibility- Yeah. or I’m gonna make that important. Uh, so I think that it’s a benefit to know who, you know, you’re working with from a, a personal standpoint- Yeah. uh, because, you know, we’re all different. Yeah. I- we all- Mm-hmm. and he may not- Travis is not always- and he’ll agree to you, he’s not the most vocal, out, forthcoming, you know, with, it may be in here. Yeah. And there’s been a lot of times where I’ll assume something, he hasn’t said it, and then I’ll go ask it, and I gotta remember that, hey, this might not have been in the plans, and he’s gotta remember that, “Hey, I never spoke that. “Right. Right? So there’s a reason, there’s a middle ground. Mm-hmm. And- but I understand that about him. Mm-hmm. But I understand that, and I’ll always watch his non-verbal cues and- He’s starting to get good at it. and interactions. It’s like, I see you not saying anything when this other person is talking. So that’s telling me that you don’t love it- Yeah. but you don’t hate it enough to tell them. So then I gotta kinda get that out of you, right? And that’s just the dynamic that I speak to specifically that comes up. Mm-hmm. But that’s just me being willing- or him being willing to understand the other person’s processes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that, I think alleviates a lot of the unspoken friction and, and things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah. We, we get better at it. Yep. Um, there’s days that we’re better at it, um, there’s days that he’s probably like, “Oh, fuck that. “You know. He’s not on his breath though, no. And, and that’s okay. Yeah, but it’s okay for- get it outta your system and- Yeah. you know, understand that- You know, I think that the people that you- that you’re closest with are also the people that kinda get your, your wrath more. Mm-hmm. Right? Like your wife with the trees. Mm-hmm. Like, you didn’t do anything wrong there-but, you know. Why these trees at my house-that I didn’t approve of- Yep. I don’t- I can’t yell at the tree guy the same way I could yell at my husband. Right? And so, that’s, that’s kind of, um-how it works for us. Well, you know, uh, there’s so many branches that come to you guys, uh, through the gallery. Meaning, like, revenue streams. Mm-hmm. I know that what I’ve seen you do- you guys do a really good job of is, like, stepping into the apparel side of things, right? And doing collabs with certain artists. Mm-hmm. Tell me about this approach and why you guys decided to go thatI mean, that has been used. Um, the- it- Yeah, go ahead. Well, offering something at all different price points, um, is really where it started, and then get turning into branding, and then people do come and want to leave with something. So being able to offer that to them, and the price points, like 5,000 and below are kind of more hot right now. But then, um- In terms of art. Mm-hmm. In terms of art, yeah. But then, um, also giving us an opportunity to get creative with the artists- Mm-hmm. and get creative ourselves with the own brand, and- Mm-hmm. Kyle’s done a great job and made this shirt right here that he’s wearing. Mm-hmm. Um, so getting fun things out on clothing that would be able to support us kind of further on and get the word out. It’s- So for us, it’s 2fold. Like we can- we have the opportunity that, um- I said 2fold a lot today, huh? Mm-hmm. Check on that. Let’s go 3fold. We’re going. That’s 3fold. All right. Uh, well, you- you come up with a third. All right. Um, but we have a brand. We have the DeFi brand, right? Mm-hmm. Which is- this shirt is just, for us, it’s our gradient- Mm-hmm. it’s our verbiage, it’s our thing. Um, and it represents everybody within the brand. Mm-hmm. But then we also have this, you know, unique position that we can work with artists and collab our brand, their brand. Mm-hmm. Or create a, uh, a piece of merch that represents the gallery. Mm-hmm. So we did something with Gregory Siff where we took an image of Bonnie and Clyde from his Icons mural, and we also took the image of the Ice Cold Bomb Pop, which speak to who he is as an artist. Mm-hmm. But they’re in our gallery. Mm-hmm. And we made it a collab shirt. you know, pay for, you know, the, the production of it. We source theAnd it’s important to us to have good product, right? Yeah. So we source the, the blanks. We work with, you know, the, the printing process. And then we sell it, and then the, the artist gets, you know, the, the split on the upside. So for them, it’s just extra money. Mm-hmm. Where they’re, they’ve already created whatever it is, and now we’re putting it on a different format. Um, and it’s been fun to, to kind of like, hey, like right now we’re working with Minji. She has some pieces in the gallery, it’s like how do we take this and put it on merch and do it in a way that seems in line with our brand, but also your brand. Mm-hmm. And so that’s been fun ’cause it’s a, it’s an easier, it’s easier to turn out a T-shirt, uh, mockup than it is a canvas. Right. For the artist. Or it’s already created. Mm-hmm. And then how do weYou can, you can make prints and also do this with shirts. And not everybody, some people just want clothes. I got a guy that comes in, in, every 2 weeks just to buy clothes. Mm-hmm. And he’s like, “Hey, do I need to buy general admission every time I’m gonna buy merch? “Do you love to know So I was like, “No, dude. Get my number. “Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. “Call me and we can, you know, you don’t have to pay this entry fee if you’re coming in here to, to shop. “Um, and you know, we’re making the transition of getting it up on- online. Mm-hmm. Working with your team actually, uh, to have more of an online presence. But, uh, for us it’s important to get people in the door. Mm-hmm. I had a, an artist reach out about putting the art online, uh, to sell. And it’s like, that’s not our model. Mm-hmm. Uh, you can definitely put online the mer- I’m available at. that you have. You know, and if it sells online, we’ll facilitate shipping it or whatnot. Mm-hmm. But we want the person to come in and feel, uh, the, the creation and feel what the artist worked so hard on. Mm-hmm. Um, like what Travis mentioned briefly with BooBoo Stewart, you know, 16 hours a day, they literally look like Breaking Bad. Mm-hmm. You know, cast members, full hazmat suit. Yeah. We just got the building deep cleaned, and the shit everywhere. Mm-hmm. But like, that was a lot of hard work. Mm-hmm. I mean, they are a bit like, 16 hours a day, he’s not exaggerating. Um, and so we want you to come in and feel that. Mm-hmm. Just to buy it online, sure. I mean, there’s plenty of places you can buy art online. Mm-hmm. ARTY, there’s all kinds of them. Um, and if the artist is like adamant about it, please do that, right? Have an online presence. But for us, we would have to put everybody’s art up. And now, you know, you know how that stuff works. Mm-hmm. Yep. It’s too many products. You’re losing s- Mm-hmm. the stuff that people can buy online. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that’s a good differentiator. Like prints, things that we can ship to you reasonably. Yeah. That’s what we want online. Yeah. And we want to grow a brand where, hey, you might’ve caught us, our, your attention ’cause you saw a cool shirt in an ad. And now you’re looking at like, “What is this place? “Mm-hmm. There’s all these bios of all the different artists, and “I can buy tickets, and they’re doing this and that. “So it kind of works both lanes. And we’re leaning more towards that right now. Because we kind of got a, a better grasp on the- Mm-hmm. in-house. Mm-hmm. Right? But I think it, yeah, it’s been fun to do the merch. Mm-hmm. And it’s e- evolving and just getting hands on. And you know, that’s something that I, I’ve always kind of like enjoyed. But I didn’t go to fashion school, I didn’t do all that. But I’ve always kind ofLike when they did the Nike design, when they first came out with Nike. Right. I did, to me that was the coolest thing. ‘Cause I can, I don’t like those design these dorks are doing up in, you know, Beaverton for Nike. Mm-hmm. I can do it way better. Yeah. You know? And I, you can if you’re doing it for yourself. Mm-hmm. The challenge is creating a product for everyone, right? So. Yeah, mass appeal. Right. Right. So. Well third fold for that is? third fold actually is Travis has his own brand. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, and it’s cool to be able to, you know, work on these things. Like, hey, let’s maybe try this, this blank. Mm-hmm. Next time we do your stuff, or let’s do that this way. Mm-hmm. Nice. So that’s, that’s the third fold. That’s third fold. 4th fold, you’re getting something that is a time capsule, that is a short run for everybody. Sure, 100%. That they just can’t get for forever, right? You’re getting something you leave with people, right? And so people are gonna wear this a bunch, or they’re gonna wear it, you know, very sparingly. Mm-hmm. Because it’s very special to them and they are only gonna put it in front of an audience that really respects what they have. Sure. You know, those, those, those really do mean a lot to a lot of people, you know? It’s like, you buy clothes for the, for your appreciation of what it is, but you also want the other people to appreciate the, what you have, right? Sure. Mm-hmm. You don’t go put something in front of a bunch of people who don’t understand it, and now you’re putting wear and tear on something and it’s like, “Okay, I could’ve left this one at the house. “You know? And like for Jude, she has the big cigarette installation. Mm-hmm. We’ve had people just come buy the art, uh, her merch, just ’cause they like the installation. Yeah. Right? And that’s cool. And I guess we can add a fifth, since we’re on number 5 now. We started with 2. 5fold. 5folds. Um, the other thing is ar- some of these artists don’t know or haven’t done merch before. Mm-hmm. And they see that it’s achievable, and now that they can start doing it on their own. Mm-hmm. And build out a product line that, you know, later we can collab on a higher level on. And, you know, just kind of being a, a beacon of guidance. Mm-hmm. Whether it’s, you know, a little bit or the whole gamut of, you know, you gotta do this, this, this, and this. Yeah. You need to send this kind of file. You know, if you can’t do it, this is how you can get it done. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and kind of empowering them to, to grow their own brand. Mm-hmm. At whatever rate or however they want to. Mm-hmm. So that’s the cool thing about the merch. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause it’s like, okay, this is, it’s doable. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And there’s money in this. And when I go do these pop-up shows, and I got my prints, why not have a few T-shirts? Mm-hmm. And so, that’s, that, Jude actually has done that herself, so that’s been cool. Uh, I’ll say 6fold on this. Yeah, we’re at 6fold. 6fold, we’re at 6. many. Um, the cool thing about it is you guys are not only picking out really cool designs and working with the artists on those designs, but you’re, you’re also really interested in the quality of the material. Mm-hmm. That means a lot to you guys. I’ve had a lot of discussions, but tell everyone why that means so much of talking about the material, the way things are made. I think the intentionality of everything that we’ve done, why, why take a shortcut on something? ‘Cause it’s gonna even, we’ve had merch that have been bought and then gifted to someone else, so they don’t know anything about us. And so, I want you to feel something, right? Mm-hmm. And not just feel like it’s a souvenir T-shirt. Mm-hmm. To the point that we, we, we thought we were doing something by getting these out of Portugal until, you know, I got a tariff bill for 25% after I thought I paid for the merch. Uh-huh. So to the, to the tune of we’re willing to pay more and, uh, reduce our margins- yeah. in a sense to, um, to kinda create that unspoken, you know, confirmation. I c- I can’t sit there and tell you all of these things, especially if it’s gifted to you. Mm-hmm. But if you can, you see a brand, you like it, um, and I want you to wear it all the time. Mm-hmm. Uh, a bunch of my friends, it’s, they say it’s their favorite shirt. And they might just be saying that, but- Mm-hmm. they wear it all the time, they wear it all the time. And that’s just the way to extend your brand if you look at it that way. Mm-hmm. Is if you have something and you can apply merch to it, um, that’s just an extension of what you’re already doing without having to market- Mm-hmm. um, to do that, so. Especially with the World Cup coming, we want prints, we want things that people can buy, take across the, wherever they came from- Mm-hmm. fly back with it, and there’s not a lot of challenge. Mm-hmm. What about, what about you, Travis? What do you think is special about the clothing and the reason it’s done the way that it’s done? It can have a nice things, I mean, ’cause people, it’s ultimately an advertisement as well- Mm-hmm. once they do leave there and do wear it. Um, the, if it’s, the nicer it is, the more likely you are to wear it. Mm-hmm. And, um, support it. But also, I mean, yeah, you don’t want somebody to feel that they got gypped or something- Mm-hmm. like, after purchasing something. ‘Cause the, like you said, having to add that 25% tariff, I mean, it’s an expensive shirt also. Mm-hmm. It’s not like your typical tour shirt. Um- Yeah. So, you are having to pay a little bit more of it, um,I, another thing that I th- thought of when he was saying that, it’s like, some of these artists, like, like Gregory. Mm-hmm. Right, he’s been in the MoMa. Yeah. He’s a big artist, so he, he has merch, and there’s a standard of quality- Mm-hmm. that his brand represents. Mm-hmm. So if we were to dip that-you know, to match, you know- Throw it on a Gildan. to our brand of where we’re at- Yeah. then it, it’s a d- it’s a disservice to him- Mm-hmm, yeah. as an artist and to his standards. So it’s like- Mm-hmm. All right, we’re gonna raise our standard that we can align with anybody, and if you’re not, you’re selling Gildan T-shirts on your, like- Mm-hmm. Well, if you’re gonna do one with us, it’s gonna be one of these. Yeah. And that’s, I think that’s the standard of excellence, but it, uh, it just speaks to the art too. Art is expensive. Mm-hmm. The reason art is expensive is because not everybody can do it, but also things that are expensive are w- taken care of in a different way. Mm-hmm, yeah. Right? And so the longevity of it is- Mm-hmm. you know, there’s a, there’s an inherent longevity of it. So if you buy a $20 or $30 T-shirt, you don’t care what happens to it. You buy a $80, $100 T-shirt, it’s like, “Oh, I got this stain,” you know, and now- Yeah. you’re like trying to get it out. Yeah. And that inherently just, uh, creates a longer product, a longer window of- Mm-hmm. uh, impact. I think that that’s important, too. I noticed that you guys have similarities in the types of collabs that you do with, with the artists. Are there, is it formulaic? Are you asking them to do your thing in this type of a layout or formula? Like, small left chest- Yeah. big print back. Yeah. Like, what are, what are the prerequisites when you go start working with artists? I think that there’s no prere- prerequisites. I think that, that, that presentation has just kind of been easy to execute in terms of here’s your brand, here’s our brand, how do we make it not busy and work? Um, and then, not going too busy, right? Mm-hmm. And a little bit m- something that speaks to everybody. Mm-hmm. Um, the, with the simplicity on the front and then the, the, the maxed out on the back in terms ofUh, a lot of times it’s, it’s images of the artwork so you kinda wanna give it its scale. Um, but yeah, th- there, if some artist is like, “Oh, I wanna do all this, you know, on the front,” if it makes sense and we like it- Mm-hmm. and they like it then, you know, there’s, there’s things down the pipeline that’ll be a little bit different. Mm-hmm. Um, if you know anything about, um, merch and where you can print and stuff, there’s different sizings. And on the back you can go a little bit bigger- Mm-hmm. especially the way that we do things. So it just, it creates like a bigger, uh, backdrop without being busy. Yeah. You don’t give anybody a template and say, “Hey, man, this is kind of our formula. Roll this route. “No. You just say, “Hey, we need a shirt. “”What do you think? “But yeah. And, and a lot of that comes, like with Gregory, he already did the artwork. Mm-hmm. And so I called his manager and I called him. I was like, “Hey, can we put these on shirts? “And then we took his signature and we put our thing, and that was the, that was the collab. The- Mm-hmm. image on the back is all him. Mm-hmm. Um, so that one, there wasn’t really, uh, anything other than getting his permission- Yeah. to, to repurpose his, his creation. Mm-hmm. Um, whereas Jude, she already had a creation that wasn’t on canvas but she had a, the file that she made- Mm-hmm. and she wanted to put it out there. Um, so we, we had, we collaboratively came up with the front logo and then she introduced this- Mm-hmm. without having to paint it. Mm-hmm. Right? So now you kind of test is, do people like that? Mm-hmm. Now I can go paint it. Um, with Minji she’s a little more hands-on. Mm-hmm. She has stuff that she wants and, uh, she wants to incorporate based on, “Here’s my idea,” and she’s like, “Well, can we add this and can we add this? “And it’s like, “Of course. “Yeah, yeah. Like, how do you want to be represented? And I think from that, uh, it’ll get more diverse. Uh, uh, Brian has his own product line and it- Mm-hmm. it’s, uh, outsells our stuff all the time. Yeah. And, uh, it, that helps us because when you’re inside of the gallery, um, you know, it’s all the same standard. And he helped us with our blanks, and he’s trying to get his brand into other retailers. And we’re a case study that, hey, people are coming in spending this money and they’re- Right. they’re not balking at the price. They’re swiping and they’re enjoying it and they’re taking pictures. Uh, you know Chris Hinckley- Mm-hmm. over there? Yep. He just ordered one for his shirt, for his friend, uh, ’cause he has one and we’re shipping it to New Jersey, so. Yep. And that allows us to get our brands out beyond the, the metropolitan area. Yeah. And, you know, “Hey, what is that? “And, “Oh, you might be going to Dallas in 2 weeks and- Mm-hmm. now you’re gonna go check out this place ’cause you saw this shirt in New Jersey. “Yep. That’s cool, man. I mean, the exposure is really cool, and then you get basically little, uh, circles and pods that you get to populate with with those artists that are all over the place, ’cause they’re pushing their own swag too, right? So brand name is really, it’s really smart doing the collab with that. Also, another thing with the merch is you’re able to use it as a, as a gift. Mm-hmm. People like getting stuff. And if you can hand it, like, you know, we gave your guys some, some merch- Mm-hmm. ’cause they deserve it for what they do for us. Mm-hmm. But I’m sure he’ll wear that hoodie and like, “Oh man, it’s cold and now I’ve got this hoodie and I like wearing it. “And if it’s design- Mm-hmm. and it’s nice, and that you, you appreciate it. Yeah. You’re like, “Oh shit, I’ve got this hoodie and now my, my girlfriend wants one,” and now we sold a hoodie, right? Mm-hmm. But it’s also nice to hand something s- to somebody. Yeah. Like Travis has socks, and socks were easier than shirts and, you know, on onward. But, you know, these socks cost us 8 bucks to make and- Mm-hmm. it’s just delivering you a m- or whatever Yeah, people may leave the most with my- Yeah. my things. Because that’s the only w- the only, um, items in there that I can really give away or- Yeah. or like- Right. do half off, but- Yeah. find myself giving away a lot of things. Yeah. Well that’s cool. But that’s fun as well. I mean, it’s, it’s getting the brand out there too, right? Well you give a, you give away the socks and you get paid, paid for the mural. I think that- Mm-hmm. like that’s a good- That’s a good switch? That’s a good- Yeah. switch. Yeah. Better than giving away- I’ll take that. the mural and getting paid for the socks. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Well, are there any artists that you guys are targeting, you know, that like, “Man, I’ve got to get this human being into- into my-” Whispy, if you ever see this send us one of your Vandal gummy bears. We have been trying and it’s the perfect environment for your work. That would be the one that I just see what he’s doing and, um, I just think it fits our aesthetic. I personally like gummy bears, right? Mm-hmm. So it’s like- Mm-hmm. okay, you know, there’s an artist making gummy bears and he’s cool. Yeah. It would blend right in, uh, and there’s scalability to it. So for me what he’s doing is already in line with what we’re doing, so that would be the one. Uh, we are gonna introduce like 4 or 5 new artists soon. Mm-hmm. Um, which is fun. Yeah. Uh, we know who they are. We’re just working out the details and then logistically getting them here. Mm-hmm. Um, if you go to the website you might see a couple that aren’t on there, um, yet. But what about you? Name one. Ugh, I feel like, just put it in the universe. UhMichelangelo. Yeah. Uh, Matt Gondek, I do love. Or Daniel Arsham for sure, but he’s just way too big. But maybe eventually. Hadn’t reached out- Yeah. Mm-hmm. So we’ll, we will see. Matt Gondek’s with timing, um, there’s always a, a few of them. And it’s just kind of figuring out how to play that, how to reach out to them best, what they’re, where they’re currently at in their career. Um, there’s some people that have left Dallas and so they moved to LA, but big artists that- Mm-hmm. I definitely want to get in. Mm-hmm. One that I know he wants in, and I’ll go ahead and say it ’cause it’s a little loca- uh, is Blue the Great. Hm. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, he’s uh, he’s, he’s been on the- Mm-hmm. on the radar. Um, Sopo Pomo. Mm-hmm. You know, I think that Dan Lam’s stuff is awesome- Mm-hmm. and she’s local as well. Yeah. Um, so these are just names of people that we think kind of match the brand but, you know, it’s a 2way street. Yeah. Uh, but it’s not limited to those folks. Yeah. Um, someone else could- Definitely not. I mean, every day online I see something that would be great in there. Yeah. Soit’s tough to kind of play that game. Knowing who to reach out, ’cause also you don’t want to open promise or empty promises as well. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it’s kind of finding a way to gauge people’s, uh, uh, not intention, but, um- Interest? Oh, yeah, interest in it. Yeah. Like- And soLike, for example, if you’ve been to the gallery or you’ve seen pictures, we have one of Rick Fairless’ bikes. It’s one of his personal bikes. Yeah. And he called me and he’s like, “Hey, man, I miss my bike. “Yeah. “I want to ride my bike. “Uh-huh. You know, and we also have his coffin. And the reason that we have his coffin is because he came in and saw everybody else’s installation. Mm-hmm. And he needed to add it up. Mm-hmm. So, uh, like, that’s only going to be on display at the gallery, uh, up to, like, mid-December or so. Mm-hmm. Because it’s his property. Like, we, we, we appreciate him, you know, uh, displaying with us and it’s not closing the door. There might be, in 6 months, we might get a different bike. Mm-hmm. He might want to do something that fits an exhibit. So that’s going to be something that rotates out, and because of that rotation out, it creates an opportunity to bring- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so, uh, there’s a piece of yours that’s an installation that might be a part of an acquisition. Mm-hmm. And if that’s a part of the acquisition, now that g- that forces an evolution- Yeah. um, of, in whether you are able to do it, right? Mm-hmm. And in this case we know in that situation- Mm-hmm. there was a plan. Yep. But if there wasn’t, it’s like, “Okay, Brandon’s tied up. “Mm-hmm. “We need to pivot. What are our options? Or- Mm-hmm. ” or who do you think we should give this opportunity to? “And maybe it’s someone that’s in the pipeline, or maybe it’s someone that we call out and send them this exact exhibit and see if they have- Mm-hmm. something more. So,I expect all those people we named to, to call us now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, that’s, I mean, really, that’s the, the big point is, like, where, where you’ve been, where you started, expectations of what it’s, what you expected it to be, how that’s changed, the things that have really started to flourish that you didn’t expect to. And then kind of where you want to see this thing going in the future. Like, is there, is there anything out there that you’re like, “Man, I’ve got to do one of these things,” or, “I want to take this to a different direction. “I mean, yeah, I mean, that’s a long list. I think it’s a, it’s a tiered list. I mean, more short term, it’s some of these projects, you know, I’m working, pitching an idea with SMU to get them more brand equity in Dallas. How do you do that? You get the sponsors, you get the, the, uh, the boosters to pay for the mural. You get the artist to come do the mural and the subject is SMU- Mm-hmm. and now it’s cool and now it’s everywhere and you kind of grow a brand. And my ex- my pitch to them is, “You go to TCU, there’s brand equity there. “Mm-hmm. Dallas is a bigger city, you should have some brand equity and they’re in a new conference. Right. Uh, so you can go after the, the athletic department, ’cause they got a bigger budget. And it just grows the, the school. Um, so projects like that. Mm-hmm. Um, whether it be mural projects with FIFA that provide opportunity for the artists. Mm-hmm. Uh, we have, uh, different, uh, companies coming out and they want to do different things and, um, Brand. One is a bus company. They’re, they’re getting a bunch of murals on their buses. And we want to be the, the, the, the first stop. Because it, we can open doors and opportunities for the artists and we can deliver something that they’re, they’re seeking. Yeah. So I think on a short term scale there. Um, curating, um, you know, micro experiences from, you know, using our artists or our processes in the, you know, other things, whether it’s a, a hotel or an airport. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, kind of taking the D5 brand and temporarily putting it other places- Yeah. um, I think is a goal. I know Travis has personal goals as an artist, you know, that- Mm-hmm. I know that our presence is gonna make those more achievable. Mm-hmm. Um, but I think for myself, it’s that, to continue just to, to grow the brand, evolve the brand in an organic way. Yeah. Um, and, and just to, to keep having fun, you know? That’s an, that’s an interesting thing you just said right there, and I would like to expand on that. A lot of people think building a brand is, “I just need to show people more of me. “Hm. “How can I get more of me to a different location? “And I think what you talked about at that point was, what other key elements in the city are interested in tying into the roots of kind of where we want to keep this thing, what we want to expose, what we want to show? talking to SMU, talking to some of the other key features in Dallas. Like, that’s an interesting approach. I haven’t heard people say much about that before, of, like, reaching out to established people to say, “You are a, uh, you know, a front runner for what is Dallas. “Mm-hmm. “Let’s kind of tie this thing together so everyone sees of you have support in what other people are doing as, as well as we do in you,” right? Tying the, the, the 2 leaders together, right? Is that kind of the direction? Yeah, I mean, he’s just saying it simply. Yeah, because, you know, what theyI can’t go coach volleyball- Yeah. but I can make volleyball more relevant to a person, somebody walking on the street through a mural imple- implementation. And the reason I know that we can do that is ’cause we were doing it on a smaller scale with Travis. You know, he’s worked with plenty of hospitality and, and commercial businesses to make whatever they’re trying to do more relatable. ‘Cause you, you add art to a public space, people have more likelihood to- Mm-hmm. revisit, to engage, to, to shop, whatever you’re trying to do there. Mm-hmm. It makes people feel safer. Yeah. Right? Because it’s like, “Oh, this is a creative, safe place. “Mm-hmm. Um, so just communicating that, and, and instead of sending you a PDF of all these artist works, come see the gallery- Yeah. and what speaks to you? And it’s like, “Can we do this? “And you, you callIf you call risk, you’re gonna get a price. Yeah. But if you let us negotiate that, you’re probably gonna get a more favorable price or even answer on the phone, right? YeahYou know, so, um, yeah. And I think that all it, all to say, it’s all opportunities for the artist. And from that, you know, everybody’s paying artists to, to make their brand cool, right? You, you don’t pay them for theirYou don’t pay an artist for their ability. You don’t pay them for how long they’ve been doing it. You pay for the vision. Mm-hmm. And what’s the price of that? Yep. And a lot of companies get so down the track of their brand, and now they realize, “Oh, I’m over here. How do I get these people over here? “Mm-hmm. The NFL did it great. I still think Taylor Swift, Travis Kelce is a plant. Yeah. And it worked tremendously- Yeah. whether you, you like it or you don’t. Except for his game has gone downhill, but keep going. Yeah. Still, still showing up in the Super Bowl. He’s all over it, yeah. Still relevant. Got the number one or number 2 podcast. Yeah. His, his brother’s wife has the number one podcast. And it’s like, okay, that worked because you took 2 things- Power houses. that already worked- Yeah. and how do we bridge? How do we build a bridge? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that’s what it’s about. So it’sTravis is going to an event tonight that’s, uh, more, you know, it’s, uh, the creators in Dallas, the movers and shakers in Dallas. And well, one of the gentlemen there is, uh, you know, he’s the head of the Trinity Conservatory. And ISomeone called, told me in a conversation with him that he’s looking- Mm-hmm. for murals. So I told Travis, like, “Hey, go find Tony, pitch this exact location, and let’s just get this done. “Right? Yeah. And that’s, taking initiative- Mm-hmm. but also from a place of, uh, we know what we can deliver. Mm-hmm. Right? So- Yeah. it’s important. Well, that’s a, that’s also a really interesting point there too you brought up was like, life outside of the gallery. Mm-hmm. You know, A, how has that changed for you guys? Are you starting to become noticed around the area for a mover and shaker? Mm-hmm. Um, and what does it go into to you have to be seen, be seen at a lot of locations? Um, I don’tI’ve- He’s seen or seen more than me. I guess I’ve kind of always just grown up, I’ve grown up here in Dallas and fortunate to having and keeping tons of friends. And so, uh, but in the art world, I mean, I have noticed like the 10 District, um, Art Walk was a couple weeks ago, and then walking by and then people introducing themselves like, “Oh, I came to the gallery and Ed loved it. “So there has beenI have seen like a connection directly- Mm-hmm. from the gallery. Mm-hmm. yeah, I mean, it is kind ofNot everywhere, you do run into people you know. Mm-hmm. I, I think that, that it’s harder because we don’t really push ourselves. Mm-hmm. Like, we’re not trying to grow our personal brands. Travis is different as an artist, but his role in the gallery, he’s not trying to put himself out front. Yeah. Right? Where we’ll be the voices. We’ll show up and do the interview. We’ll s- tell the story because it is our story to tell, but it’s more about the brand- Mm-hmm. and it’s not like a face of the brand. So I wouldn’t say like, in that sense, you know, that’s not our goal, but it does happen. One thing is I, I have a lot more politician friends than I think I, uh, would-ever had in my entire life. And it’s all because of just couple things that we did. And, you know, sometimes you scratch somebody’s back and I’ve, I had to lean on that. I- Mm-hmm. There’s something going on in our area that they’ve been trying to solve and I was like, “Well, call one person. “It’s like- Yeah. like, how did I find myself with this person’s number and now we’re, we’re- Yeah. we’re playing these different games. Um- Donald, I need your help. No, we’re not there yet. We’re not there yet. But in, in the, in the, the confines of Dallas, which is one of the, you know, the places to be in the country- Yeah. in terms of growth and opportunity, um, that’s, that’s been a, an interesting dynamic because it just creates opportunities. It gives you confidence like, “Hey, what, what’s the worst thing someone can say? “Mm-hmm. Right? Is no andI heard something the other day and I, I told myself I was gonna say it on this podcast ’cause I just think it was so profound. It’s like, all this leads up to or boils down to decisions. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. When you’re born, you look like your parents. When you die, you look like your decisions. Mm-hmm. And that’s just like every timeSince I heard that I was like, “I gotta”Like, you got, you, you gotta think about it that way. So our decisions from the smallest, what shirt are we gonna wear to who are we gonna allow to come and display their art or who are we gonna allow to come in and, and, impede on ourNot impede but, um- Co-exist? Co-exist in our space. Yeah. Um, you know, what, what are the decisions and what is that gonna lead to? Is it gonna lead to more opportunities? Is it gonna lead to problems? Is it gonna lead to that? And so I think that w- if we stay true to ourselves and our decisions align with what we set out to do- Mm-hmm. I mean, the sky’s the limit in terms of- Mm-hmm. you know, the impact of our brand or also, you know, the artists that come up. You know, someLike I mentioned Russell, you know, he could be the best artist in Texas in 10 years, right? Mm-hmm. it’s-given the confidence or the- the outlet for that, um, yeah. As you go through this, I guess, what I was getting at earlier, and I know that you guys have both been in the- the in crowd for- for a long time, and- and so, I guess what I’m getting at is do you find yourself in new circles- Definitely. much like the political stuff? Like, do you find yourself, people giving you a different, uh, vision of authority now that you’ve started to establish something that is bigger than, “Hey, I created a piece of artwork”? Yeah, now I’ve got something real to talk about, a physical space- Yeah. that, um, that’s really just a big proving ground. A lot of times I’ve- I’ve been talking about it, and then now it’s really come into exist- Yeah, validation. as far as the gallery. Yeah. Validation is, uh, great. And that’s also just personal validation, like for myself. Like, having had something, then now all of a sudden I didn’t have it, ’cause we had created- Mm-hmm. one prior, and then, um, really pouring everything in to something that, uh, you truly believe in. Yeah. You get another 50 plus people to truly believe in it as well and help you bring it all together. Um, it’s, uh, has been great, and that has definitely helped just going out- Mm-hmm. in general and- and being able to talk about something that, truly created and believed in. Mm-hmm. And, um, being able to take him and show him, like, um, let me blow your mind over here, likeAnd Travis has always been cool in that context. Yeah. Uh, I- I hung up those boots a long time ago. Uh-huh. So I feel like he’s more, you know, in tune to answer that question, ’cause he does go out and he’s kind of the- the social, uh, like when we have these events, I could go to ’em if I was there. But he’s the art person, so-like a conversation, like, “What do you do? “”I do the business. “”What does he do with art? “”Well, go talk to him. “Yeah. You know what I mean? Um, so, uh, I think that- that’s back to our own lanes, our own responsibilities, um, that’s something that i- is- is deserved, right? You- you created this space, you get, you’re the- the creative visionary behind it. Now go- go talk about it. Mm-hmm. Go see how you can leverage that to grow our brand, your own brand. Mm-hmm. Uh, he’s gotten to do more artwork from the not-Travis lens, because they come in and he’s telling the story of everybody else, it’s like, “Hey show me your artwork,” and now there’s this connection, and- Mm-hmm. um, that’s just, I guess, the- the fruits of the sacrifice that he gets to- Mm-hmm. to achieve. So, um, yeah. But that’s not why, I don’t think, that we’ve ever set out to do this. Like I- my- my Instagram account is on private. Yeah. I don’t wanna get, “Oh, I saw you over here, let me-” Mm-hmm. ” get over here. “And I- I recently made that switch because that’s not what, it’s not about me. Mm-hmm. It’s not about Travis McCann, it’s more about not-Travis- Mm-hmm. ’cause he’s an artist in that. Um, and as long as we stay true to that, it’s just gonna, it’s gonna feel more organic and it’s gonna be, um, what we set out to do. Yeah. Um, why get in front of what you guys already have? Yeah. And that’s another thing we have to remind ourselves is like, yeah, we need the artists to work, but the artists don’t necessarily need us to work. Mm-hmm. And so like you can’t get too big for your britches and think that like you’re the secret sauce. Yeah. ‘Cause it’s- it’s really the other way around- Mm-hmm. and we understand that and we try to move accordingly. It’s relationship based. For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Well, not-Travis, speaking to you, was there a moment, well I guess for both of you guys, um, was there a moment where you said, “Hey look,” or somebody came up and said, “Hey, these are the guys that did Gallery DeFi, these are them right there,” and you get introduced as that? Oh, yeah. You know, that really kind of like, where you almost wanna kind of elbow the other one and go, “We did it. “You know? I mean, yeah, but it’s also recognizing that and everything when it does happen. Mm-hmm. Um, and it is always great and fun to hear. I mean, it’s, you’re being recognized for the work that you’ve done, and um- Yeah. But it’s always, uh, I always say it was definitely, definitely took a team and everything, like, everybody coming together, so. Mm-hmm. UmI do, I do ask, uh, various, uh, AI search engines about us- Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. just to kind of- Hmm. Like I did Google AI, I was like, “What’s,” you know, “Gallery DeFi? “it says. Mm-hmm. And I send it to, to my team because it’s like, “You need to see this. “And it’s like- Yeah. you, you, we’re in it so much, it’s like, you take a, 5 steps back and take a deep breath and now look at it from this lens ’cause when you’re in the middle of a hurricane, let’s call it- Mm-hmm. you don’t know how big the outside of it is. Yeah. And how much movement is going on. Um, and it’s like, if you’re inside of that too long and you don’t step back and smell the roses, right? Mm-hmm. Then you don’t appreciate, know, that you have already achieved- Yeah. every fucking thing that you were trying to achieve- Mm-hmm. everything that you were gonna do. And it’s like,Give yourself some grace so you can use that to be remotivated to do- The next thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and I, I think that’s kind of the stage that we’re in. Mm-hmm. Um, it’s not easy. It’s not, I mean, ’cause it’s like, yeah, those goals are the old goals. I don’t- Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it’s- We have these new goals, so, what, what are you telling me about this old stuff for? But like, for everyone else- Yeah. it’s new. Yeah. Um, so just trying to s- navigate that and not get complacent. Yeah, that’s exactly kind of where I was going with this, is like, it’s really easy to have a dream. Mm-hmm. When you get in the dream, you’ve kind of set everything aside and you just kind of get lost in the moment, right? And you’re like, the world is swirling around you and it’s like, you, you’re not really paying attention to the overall picture anymore. You’re looking at problem-solving every single day,And as you start thinking about the problem-solving and the things that you have to do to solve that, like, it’s pretty cool when you guys find out that you had a dream way back. Mm-hmm. Just the spark of an idea, and that thing has gotten to this point and now you look things up or people introduce you as, or, or you say, “Hey, what do you do? “”Oh, I run a gallery. “”What gallery? “”Oh. That. “Right? Yes. It’s like, “I’ve heard of it. “It’s like, “Oh, sure. “WellOr even from, from artist’s perspective- Mm-hmm. for me to say that I’m in the gallery is a respect point, you know? I don’t want to put myself in every gallery. I really don’t. quite honestly care not to. Mm-hmm. Because they just aren’t seen the same way. We’re not talked to the same way. We’re not respected the same way, you know? And so for me to put my stuff in there with people just like you who, you seeing on the other side of what it’s been like- Mm-hmm. you being part of that ride as well, but it’s really cool to be just a part of something that is different, you know? And, and for me as an artist that’s, that’s why I feel super proud to be a part of something like this and watch it grow and see you guys become- Yep. who you are and what you are. And, and I know the world’s going to be able to see this, that you guys are really humble guys, you know, at the end of the day. Like, you don’t say much about yourselves, you don’t talk about this or that or the other, and you do give out a lot of kudos to everybody else. So, uh, respect for that. You know? And, uh, you know, again, super proud of what you guys have done. Super happy to see the, the direction and how far you’ve come. I know it’s been a long journey and I know you guys are just now taking a breath. Yeah. You know? But kudos to you guys, man. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Really, really cool. Got a lot more to come. Yeah. 100%. 2way street. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Maybe we’ll get episode 3 of this bad boy coming up. Oh, yeah. SevenfoldSevenfold. Well, at the end of the day, too, where can people find you? Uh, Gallery DeFi on Instagram. Uh, gallerydefi. io ’cause we thought we were cool and wanted to be dot-io during the, the crypto- Still are. We were cool, but at the time it’s like, “What if we were io? “Mm-hmm. So, um, there. Right? From Indonesia. And I think that, and I think someone actually had our URL that might have known us and bought the URL, uh- Oh. did a charages kind of deal. Too sweet. So I, I have my, I have my thoughts on who it might be. Uh, but, um, Gallery DeFi on all, if you type it into Google you should be able to find us at this point ’cause we got good SE- SEO work. Mm-hmm. Not seen on camera. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, like, that’s your guys. That’s your team. Um, and so, um, and then if you, if you’re in the area and just want to stop by, sometimes we’re there, we’ll give tours. Mm-hmm. Um, and if, you know, you have ideas for the space, reach out. We have Instagram you can reach out. We have a website forum or an email. Hours of operation? Uh, right now, uh, Friday and Saturday 5:00 to 10:00, Sunday 12:00 to 4:00, and then we have a Tuesday evening which really just services as a way for us to get up there and do content but also give access to the gallery, uh, for people that work on the weekends- Mm-hmm. industry people. Um, and then the other days are used for kind of these different initiatives. Mm-hmm. Um, and those hours may expand, um, you know, next year with the World Cup- Mm-hmm. according to Travis. We’re gonna be 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Yep. But, uh, we’ll see. To be determined on that part. You guys are looking into maybe rental podcasting and- Yeah. So we have a, we have a space in the, the gallery that we want to maybe convert to a podcast studio, um, you know, for, for us to tell our story but, you know, for you to continue to tell your story if you had somebody that can only be in Dallas for an hour- Mm-hmm. it’s like, “Hey, come shoot this here” and- Yeah. this, this, grow all of this together. In a local environment. Yeah. So that’s kind of, I guess, the, one of the next build outs for us behind the scenes in the gallery. Mm-hmm. Uh, and there’s a possibility that, you know, you attend on a Friday night, we’re shooting a podcast- Mm-hmm. So you can kind of see on air who’s in there. And that just kind of just creates a different feel- Mm-hmm. and, um, access. Yeah. A lot of people, um, that come in, I think they’re taken back by the access ’cause you- Mm-hmm. come in on a Friday and you might have 4 of the artists- Mm-hmm. that just came by with their kids- Yeah. and they’re standing around and you can ask them about their pieces or their- Yeah. processes and that’s important to us to have that, so I think accessibility to the artist is kind of the, the special thing that we offer as well. Yeah. And, and Not. Travis, where can we find you? @not. travis. Um, N-O-T period Travis. Or if, if you’re feeling frisky, I think he’s got another page called Cowboy Trav. You’re welcome. Cowboy Trav. You’re welcome. No vowels. Is there a dot-com for Not. Travis? nottravis. com. Yep. Yeah. Got merch and things on there. And then, um, about to start posting more on my Instagram. He’s been saying that for 4 years. We’ll get it going. Man, isn’t it, isn’t is crazy how, as an artist you just- Yeah. you’re creating and you’re not sharing enough? That’s, that, that’s the story of my life. And caught up here with the gallery and then got a show, if you’re out, uh, at Art Basel, uh, December 3rd, about to post about it. December 3rd in Wynwood, um, got a show there, so definitely come by if you’re around. Super sick. UmWynwood is it. Travis is not our social media coordinator, I will tell you that. I am not. Shout out to Tweet Tweet. ButWell, very cool. Well, again, want to thank you guys for coming on and, uh, making the drive and, uh, coming down to our new studio and I really appreciate it, guys. It was an honor. Great. Thank you. 100%. Yeah. Well, until next time everybody- August, thank you. He’s, August is over here, he’s off the camera, he deserves all the love. 100%. August the man. Until next time, that’s the blueprint.