Episode 61 – Taylor Artman

I wasn’t the competitor that’s gonna like get, you know, mad or angry- No. or lose, lose my cool or whatever. But it would bother me if I lost. Oh, yeah. Uh, you know, I’d, like I, I would probably go pout for a minute-and then go back and practice, you know? Yeah. Be like, “That’s not happening again. “Yeah. What was college life like? How, how did thatDid you succeed? Did you win any tournaments? Uh, what were we talking about? Just, just in sports? We’re talking about golf, yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, ’cause it took me- It’s school now. It took me 6 or 7 years to graduate, so I don’t know what success looks like there. But I got a degree. They say, what? You gottaYou can only be great at 2 things? Yeah. And I chose social and golf. I sponsored the North Texas PGA Section Championship. I maxed out our credit card. And at least everybody picked box A. Uh-huh. They’re like, “I could buy 12 or 18 hats from this kid,” you know, or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. And so we wrote 50, 53 orders- Mm-hmm. 54 orders, for about $43,000- Look at that. in about an hour. I’m probably saying too much, but yeah. That, that’s pretty much what it was. We were just kidding about all that stuff we just talked about. That’s not even, that’s not there. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to The Blueprint. Today, I’ve got Taylor Artman. Taylor Artman is the CEO and founder of Surf & Turf Golf. Uh, he’s got a really cool story about, you know, just how he brought a bunch of guys together and then something kind of exploded in his lap. So, uh, let’s hear it. Hey, guys, if you can do me a favor, just make sure you, uh, hit that subscribe button at the bottom. That’s really gonna help us to put out more of these and, uh, we’ll grow this and, uh, see who we can bring on. If you know somebody, shoot me a DM and, uh, tell me who they are. I love you. Taylor, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it. Of course, of course. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So the new studio, you’re like numero, number 2 in the new studio. It’s cool. It’s awesome. Yeah? I love it. As soon as I pulled up, I saw the sign out front and I was like, “This is, this is some pretty neat property. “Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cool. 111 year- I love it. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. 111 year old building, so, uh, we’re really, uh, glad just to be a part of like the lineage of what this thing was. And it’s kinda cool if you think about like how many hands have actually worked in this building- For sure. and done things, you know? It’s like we’re just another step along the way, but it’s cool to be a part of it, right? Yeah. I grew up in a small town, so I’ve, uh, I’ve always had kind of a, uh, a, you know, I’ve been drawn to building like, buildings like this and- Yeah. old, old mainta- main streets, uh, you know? Yeah. Downtowns. Yeah. So yeah, pretty cool. Yeah. Um, well, speaking of old towns, uh, like where are you from? Where’d you grow up? Norman, Oklahoma. Norman. Uh-oh, here it is. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Home, home of the Sooners. Uh, I didn’t go to OU though. Uh, I went to Oklahoma City University. But yeah, I gr- grew up in Norman. My, uh, most my family is from there originally. Mm-hmm. Uh, I’ve got a lot of family from Texas and then, uh, yeah, m- we’ve kind of dispersed out. I live in, uh, Arlington, Fort Worth area now. Okay. My sister’s in McKinney, my brother’s in Denver. Uh, and so, but we still go back. Uh, we’re, we’ve got season tickets to OU games and stuff, soThat’s nice. Yeah. The, that, that town will never die to me. It, it’s always gonna be home. Yeah, I understand that. You know, I’m, I’m, uh, 5 generations from East Texas. Yeah. Same, same town. Um, but, uh, you know, I didn’t go to UTie- UT either but I grew up watching it and I don’t know, it’s kinda once it gets in your blood, that kinda stuff just kinda, it’s there forever, right? 100% Can’t walk away from it. Yeah. 100% So I went to art school so I didn’t- We didn’t have any football teams, soI mean, I, I went, I played golf in college and so when people give me a hard time, like, “You didn’t even go to OU. “Uh-huh. It’s like, “Well, I would have,” you know? I didn’t. But- Yeah. And I grew up there, it’s like I’ve supported the program. I think I’ve, m- I’ve, you know, paid in my dues. Yeah, that’s cool. Yeah, I, I can say I’m an honorable alumni, I guess. Yeah. I’ve been grandfathered in. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, um, so you, you grew up there. Like, what was, what was family like, you know, for you? Uh, so my family’s, uh, I think, uh, a really great family to grow up, grow up in. Mm-hmm. Uh, my parents are still happily married. Um, they’re 75 now. Oh, nice. And then my brother and sister are a lot older than me, so I’ve kind- I’m kind of an old soul a little bit. Mm-hmm. I think I’ve figured out as I got older. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I’m, I’m drawn to people older than me usually versus younger. Yeah. I think ’cause my siblings are older than me, I’m the youngest one. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, family life was good. My grandpa, uh, he was a teacher at OU, a professor at OU. Okay. Spanish. Okay. And then, uh, my, uh, great-grandma also worked at OU. Okay. Uh, so we’ve got a long line of Sooners there. Yeah. Yep. Very cool. So you, um, so as you were growing up, you said that you played golf in college, like at what age did you get a stick in your hand? So when I was about 3 years old, my dad would take me out to, uh, the golf course and he’d pretty much carry his clubs on one shoulder- Okay. and he’d carry me on the other one. Yeah. And, uh, he was good about just letting me, you know, introduce myself to the game. Yeah. And so he’d have me, you know, just, uh, out there around the game. Mm-hmm. And I would either take it seriously one day, I guess, from, from what I’ve been told- Uh-huh. uh, the next day I was probably playing in the sand trap, you know? And so, um, yeah. Yeah, I, I think I just kind of enjoyed it. I, I used to always be around it. We’d go fishing on the golf course, we’d go search for golf balls, whatever we would do. Yeah. Uh, he kinda made it fun for me. Well, that’s cool. And so I remember as a kid, it was a little different time back then, though. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, my parents or my, or my grandpa would drop me off at the course- Mm-hmm. uh, especially in the summer- Yeah. at like 9:00 AM and pick me up at 5:00. And there’d be another, you know, little posse of kids out there too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, uh, and that was our daycare, you know? I don’t know if you can do that anymore with how- No, probably not. There’s a, there’s a van with candy somewhere out there- Exactly. somewhere looking for that. But I think that that really introduced me to the game in a healthy way. Mm-hmm. And I, I just was put out there and I just had to figure it out. Yeah. So it worked. So were you caddying or anything or you just played all day? I just played all day. So- But we didn’t always play. Okay. We’d go to the pool, we’d mess around, you know? Okay. We’d play cards in the locker room. We were kids. So it was a country club type place? Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Very cool. So it was a small country club called The Trails, uh, in Norman- Uh-huh. is where I grew up. And then I’ve actually been a member of every course in town at some point in my life- Yeah. or worked at every course in town. Yeah. Um, now, s- but The Trails was, I would say, the one that I started out. As your hometown? Yep. Yeah, that’s cool. And I still see buddies now, you know, we’re all f- pushing 40 or, or whatever. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I’ll see them around and w- we’ve got lifelong connections. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause we’d be out there from age 8 to- Yeah. 15, messing around out there. Mm-hmm. So, uh- Any of the other guys that you, uh, grew up with, uh, go to college to play? Yeah. There was quite a few, actually. Okay. Uh, I’d probably say about, uh, I, I’d say if there was 15 kids out there in our little circle, I’d say easily, uh, 5 or 6 of them went on to play college golf. Okay. Yeah. You all had a little crew out there, eh? Yeah. We had a good, we had a good game. Um, I’d put Edmond, Oklahoma above us. But I think Norman is probably the second-best golf town in Oklahoma. Really? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Or Jen- Jenks, Tulsa’s pretty good. Okay. But yeah. The, we had, we had a, a bunch of good players come out of Norman. Yeah. I, uh, I was a barbecue tour player back in the day. And, uh, went up and played a lot of, like, sandbagger tournaments up in, in Oklahoma. That’s a, that’s a different game, man. You gotta-you gotta hit the ball low or you gotta hit it high, depending on which way the wind’s blowing, right? That’s true. That’s true. It is very windy up there. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s very similar here too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, well that’s cool. So y- so they drop you off, you got into that. At what level did you think, like, “Man, maybe I’m gonna start pushing off into this a little bit a little harder? “Um, I kinda knew pretty early. Okay. Yeah. Uh, I’d say when I was a junior golfer, maybe about age 10 or 11, I was, um, winning most of the stuff I would play in. Okay. Uh, or at least finishing second or third or something. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, a- and I just kind of progressed at that. You know, I w- I would say, um, I, I was always one of the top players in the state. Mm-hmm. From 11 all the way till, recruiting and into- Okay. into college. Okay. And so, I knew that, that I was gonna go play in college. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, uh, and then obviously my goal was to go play professionally from there. And so, and then had a pretty good college career too. Yeah. And, and, uh, said, “Okay, let’s give this a shot. “So. So, uh, did you, were you a, a lessons guy or were you somebody who was like, “I’m a gut guy”? Uh, yeah, definitely the second one. Yeah . Yeah. I mean, there’s, there’s 2 types of golfers, right? For sure. For sure. You know, there’s the ones that always are like, “Tell me about am I in the slot? “And, “Where’s my elbow at? “And, you know, “What are, what kind o’ RPMS do I have on this? “And, you know, it’s like, “What’s my launch angle like? “I mean, there’s some of those details that are really good to know, but- There is. There’s a point- There’s-And then there’s the other guy who’s on the other side that says like, point me to the first tee and let’s go. “And it’s likeI’m definitely the second guy. Yeah. Yeah. I, I was very, I’m very creative minded, uh, as far as like, you know, how I would see shots. Mm-hmm. And so, the fundamentals, I had b- I had, I guess, decent fundamentals, um, from just a, uh, a, you know, like a binary standpoint of, uh, my alignment was good and th- and this or that or- Mm-hmm. you know, and, uh, but as far as repeating the same shots over and over- Mm-hmm. or anything like that, I just didn’t see, I don’t see straight shots or straight lines. Mm-hmm. I always had to like carve it, you know- Yeah. hit a cut or hit a draw. Mm-hmm. Uh, but I’m left-handed so I think that’s my- Okay. that’s my, what’s that, my right brain that’s thinking- Yeah. Uh-huh. And so, whereas so many players I know are, you know, really, uh, you know, in sync with their mechanics. Yeah. I didn’t see it that way. Nah. No. No, not me either. I, I more had fun with it. I’m like- Yeah. you know, “How much could I draw this in there? “Uh-huh. Yeah. So. I’ve cut one half of the course off. Um, I’m a, I’m a draw player every time. So much to my friends, they’re like, “Okay, Tom Lehman, let’s get up here and-” “let’s see your little hook over here you’re gonna hit,” so. Um, but it’s funny. Like, you, you, you’ve always been able to hit the ball both ways? Yeah. I, I think that I’ve, I have predominantly played a draw. Okay. But actually, under pressure, I like to hit a cut, so it’s kinda weird. Interesting. Yeah. And with irons I like to hit a draw with, with driver, I like to hit a cut. And so, uh, I don’t know. It’s just how I see, see the shots. Right. Um, but I don’t hit it straight that often. Uh, it seems like it’s always cur- curving one way or the other. That’s interesting. It’s just- Oh, that’s like, uh, who’s, who’s that, uh, Bubba Watson? Very similar, yeah . Okay. Yeah. And I think Mickelson was like that. I think it’s a left-handed thing. Yeah. I just don’t think we see straight shots. Okay. So, yeah. Well, very cool. Or I’d always try to hit high, low. I don’t know. Yeah. I had to do something. I couldn’t justI don’t know. And maybe that was to my detriment- Yeah. at times. It’s probably why I was kinda streaky at times. Mm-hmm. But, uh, yeah. But hey, I, I wouldn’t change it. I had fun. So when you, when you started growing up, you started finding out that you were better at 10, 11, whatever. Did you haveD- did your parents push you at all towards this? Um,I’d say my dad pushed me probably harder than my mom, as far as, uh, competitive golf went. Yeah. But neither one of themI would say they more, um, uh, just en-Th- they were moreVery encouraging. Mm-hmm. And so, I remember I almost quit when I was about 16. Mm-hmm. My mom, you know, like, came in and wrote a sign on my mirror and said, “Never, never, never give up. “Uh, that’s kind of our thing now. I even have a paperweight on my desk she gave me. And so, uh, you know, through hard times, uh, they, they didn’t drive me to burnout, ever, but they also didn’t let me quit- Yeah. if that makes sense- Yeah. or get down. Yeah. And so, they would push me if I needed to be pushed- Mm-hmm. and then they would allow me to pursue it in my own way- Yeah. uh, the, the most of the time. But I grew up, um, for whatever reason, a pretty, I guess, self-disciplined- Mm-hmm. um, eh, when it comes to just my performance or my competitiveness. Mm-hmm. Not so much in school. Yeah? But-in sports- Yeah. you know, you didn’t have to persuade me- Yeah. to go practice at something. Yeah. Uh, even when I was playing basketball, you know, I’d be the kid that’s shooting, you know, into the wee hours of the morning. Yeah. And the neighbors are like, “Quit dribbling the ball out there. “Yeah, quit banging the ball around. And so, I, I don’t know. I was always just driven to just, uh, practice, I guess. Yeah. And- I’m, I’m a little brother too, right? Yeah. And I think some of that comes from this. Like, I’ve always told everybody, like, uh, I don’tdon’t wanna sound braggadocious. I don’t know anyone asthat’s more competitive- Right. than I am. I’m sure there’s people just as competitive. But, um, as a little brother, I would play you, and I’m never going to give you a dub. Like, if you have the chance toIf you are gonna beat me, you’re gonna beat me, and it’s everything I got. Yeah, yeah. Right? You have to earn it. You gotta earn it every single time. Because I had my head smashed in the ground so many times, right? And so, I just don’t give someone a free dub, right? But if you do beat me, I’m gonna pay- play you 10,000 times in a row until I do catch one. Yeah. You know what I mean? I, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Do you think that’s little, little brother mentality? Or where do you think that comes from? I don’t know. Um, you know, my brother, he was a very good, very good athlete too. He played professional rugby, actually. But he’s a lot older than me, so we didn’t play like head to head- Mm-hmm. like, you know, like a lot of siblings do that are one or 2 years apart. Yeah. But I had a friends circle, um, that was very competitive- Okay. that I grew up with. Yep. And soAnd I kinda had 2 kind of friends. I had, like, my regular neighborhood, you know, friends I’d play basketball and football with, or whatever. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then I had my, uh, golf friends- Yeah. the kids at the golf course. Yeah. And so, I think I always had those guys to push me, you know? Mm-hmm. In different levels and things like that. And so, um, yeah. I wa- I wasn’t the k- the competitor that’s gonna like, get, you know, mad or angry- No. or lose, lose my cool or whatever. But it would bother me if I lost. Oh, yeah. Uh, you know? I’dLike, I, I’dI would probably go pout for a minute-and then go back and practice, you know? Yeah. Be like, “That’s not happening again. “Yeah. Only- I remember in golf, I definitely had a lot of that. Uh, you’d see me, uh, at the course all day after I performed badly. Mm-hmm. I would, you knowI’d, I’d go practice it out of my system, if you will. When you’re on the course, are you jovial, or are you locked in? Are you less friendly on the course? Um, it depends. Okay. I would say, uh, when I was competing, uh, I would beI’d say a good mix of zoned in. I wouldn’t be quite as, um, conversational as I am- Yeah. you know, like in day-to-day life. Mm-hmm. But I, but I wouldn’t be like, um, you know, like silent, you know? Yeah. Or whatever. Yeah. I would, I would kind ofBut, but I alsoI had a fine line. I w- you know? I would back off shots. I would call people out if they were bothering me or whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, so I, I kind of, you knowI kinda teetered on both sides of the fence, I’d say. Had a little edge to you? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. I, I, I’mI’d say IMy confidence would probably edge to cocky 0 at some points. Okay. Um, but I, uh, I think that I s- I stayed pretty calm-demeanored. And soYeah. Yeah. You, uhWhat’s, what’s the low, low score, all-time? That’s a good question. So, 61 is my low official score, I’d say, but I’ve, I’ve got 58 unofficially. Okay. Yeah. And so- What’s the- Tell me the unofficial story, ’cause I wanna hear this. So, the unofficial story. So, we’re playing a men’s league, um, that was 9 holes, uh, in the afternoon. Mm-hmm. And I, I, ILet’s see, uh, we were playing the front 9. Mm-hmm. And so, we knew we were gonna play 9 holes before that, right? Uh-huh. And so, we went ahead and played 18 holes before that. Yeah. But we played 9 at like, noon, and then we took a break- Uh-huh. during lunch, and then we went back out to time our, uh, back, back 9 Yeah. to where right as we got done, we’d play the league 9. Yeah. So, we had a gambling game that was going from 9-1 to 9-2. Uh-huh. But we knew, intentionally, that 9-2 and 9-3 were gonna be also back to back. Uh-huh. And so, I shot-I think 34, 29, 29. Wow. And so I knew in the, I knew that it counted in my mind. Uh-huh. Because on the third 9, in the league 9, the guys I’m playing with knew I was 9 under, 10 under, 11 under, 12 under. Uh-huh. And then I was, you know, down the stretch. I was like, “I’m, I might shoot in the 50s. “Yeah. Like, and I was nervous. Yeah. And so that’s th- that was the only, uh, proof I needed personally. Yeah. Was I knew I was putting for a 58 in the end. That’s wild. And, yeah. But it technically has an asterisk ’cause I, 3 nines that day. Yeah, yeah. Well, I’ll tell you what. That’s, that’s pretty im- pretty impressive. Do you know the percentages of golfers in the US, um, by handicap? Have you ever looked at this? I have. It’s surprising. It’s crazy. It is. Give me a breakdown of what, what your perception of this is. So my perception’s still probably wrong. Okay. Even when I go back and look at it- Yeah. I’m like, “I th- I thought it was right,” right? I mean, I think- Yeah. it’s like 10% can break 90. That’s like really crazy. Something like that. Yeah, yeah. That blows my mind. Yeah. Most of the world is like over 100. Yeah. And it’s like 50%- Yeah. shoot over 100, right? Yeah, mm-hmm. It’s like a huge chunk- Yeah. shoots between 90 and 100. Yep. Like 95. Yep, yep. And so I, I don’t know. That blows my mind. I would’ve thought 10% breaks 80. A third breaks 90. Yeah. You know, the majority would break 110. Yep. No, it’s like way up there. Way up there, right? Yeah, and that’s everybody cheating. When people dropping stuff on the ground and kicking it in the air. Yeah, no one’s actually playing the real rules. Which is wild. Or hit one out of bounds and they go drop it up where it’s at instead of coming back to the tee. I mean- Yeah. there’s so much stuff, but, umAnd then the percentage of people who shoot in the 70s. I don’t even know what that is. It’s like point, it’s a dot-00 and then some numbers. Yeah. But people who can shoot underneath, under par, it’s like- 1% of 1% or something. It’s crazy. 10% of 1%. It’s bananas. Yeah. I say all this to say the number of people that have shot in the 50s in their life, I mean, that’s gotta be like pie link. Yeah, there can’t be many. No. Under, I’d say under couple thousand maybe. I’m gonna look it up. After this- Yeah. I’m gonna see if I can put a comment in the bottom of this, but people that have shot in the 50s in their life is, I mean, it’s, it’s a handful, you know? Yeah. So congratulations for that. Thanks, thanks. Unofficially. Wasn’t the h- wasn’t the hardest course, but it, I, I, I still did it. Who cares? Who cares, man? I can’t do it anymore, that’s how hard it was. Yeah, but there’s a point in time- I’m lucky to shoot in the 60s these days. Well, you know, hey, there’s a whole lotta people who’d love to do that. Yeah. Like 99. 99% of the world would love to do that right now. If I can shoot 69 these days, I’m, I’m happy. Well, surely. That’s a great round of golf, yeah. Yeah. Even if I can shoot 72, I’m usually not too mad, you know? Who, who- I don’t practice anymore. Who are you playing with these days that you would be not real happy if you shot 69? Who would I be- Or, 0 or what level of competition are you playing against on the regular right now where you’re like, “Dude, 69 wasn’t that great today, man. I’m, I lost. “? It had to be an easy course, and then that’s a, that’s kind of been the hard part I think, i- whereSo going from professional golf, um, and competitive golf my whole life- Mm-hmm. and to now being a business owner- Mm-hmm. I kinda lost my friends a little bit. I used to play in all these money games- Yeah, yeah. all these competitive games, all these pro golfers. Yeah. I had a circle of all these pro golfers. They’re still my friends. Yeah. I mean, we still call each other. Yeah. Um, but, you know, so many are either, now have either made it-who’ll probably never play golf again. They’re on the PGA Tour. Yeah. And then other guys are like me. Mm-hmm. They’re in the business world, so we’re just not playing- Yeah. in those circles anymore. And so now it’s kinda weird because I don’t always find competitive games that well. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause I can’t go play with my tour buddies anymore. Yeah. They’re gonna drum me. Yeah, mm-hmm. And just take all my money. Yeah. And then the average person- Does wanna play against you. Well yeah, I mean, it’s, there’s too many strokes or it’s just not quite the same competitive. Yep, yep. And so I do have some friends, you know, I’ve got a cousin, uh, who was a college teammate of mine as well, we just played a member guest. Yeah, he’d probably be, you know, like a rival of mine now. Yeah. ‘Cause we’re both in the working world now. Uh-huh. And so we could both shoot 82 or 67. Okay, yeah. You know, depending on how we play. Yep. And so we kinda go back and forth. Mm-hmm. So we just teamed up last week, but- How’d you do? I don’t have that many, uh, we, we played good actually. I think we were 36 under, best ball- Okay. for 7 matches, 9 holes. Uh-huh. And we finished tied for third, missed the money. Sandbagging is out there. I mean, I don’t even know if sandbaggingI think our handicaps were too low. Yeah. Um, uh, for what, for how much we play these days. Yeah, mm-hmm. But we played up to it. If you would’ve told me we were gonna, you know, we’d birdie over half the holes together- Yeah. I would’ve signed the dotted line right then. Yeah, exactly. And we still, we still lost. Yeah. And so, yeah. I mean, we weren’t, didn’t lose by much. It was competitive, but- Yeah. uh, it was fun. I, I’ve actually enjoyed it. I’ve played 2 member guests this year. Mm-hmm. And that’s been a blast. You know, a really cool thing that, uh, I, one of my clients is, uh, XGOLF, um, they’re like a simulator based, uh- Mm-hmm. And then, you know, and, and so it, you bring in all types of people to play against, right? And for most golf courses in general when they’re doing tournaments, it’s all handicap based, right? Right. I’ve been scratched at my, in my life. Uh, I’m probably 5 or 6 handicap now,That’s still too much. When you look at half the people you play against and you give up one or 2 strokes a hole- Yeah. Bro. It’s tough. You gotta shoot, uh, you gotta have a birdie on almost every hole or you’re gonna lose. Right. You know? Um, how do you feel about the handicap? ‘Cause what you just said a minute ago made me think of all these games and stuff and, and how you were really, ’cause you were kind of like, between you and me, it’s kind of a bad zone to be in. It is tough. You know? Because there’s all these people, and then there’s the sharks out there. Right. I don’t even want to put myself in your class, but like, you’re on the bottom end and I’m on the top end, but at the other side of that, it’s like, it’s a bad spot to be in. It, it is, it’s tough. I mean, we were, we played, I think Sam and I both made an eagle in 9 holes the other day- Mm-hmm. in this member guest. Mm-hmm. And we didn’t win either hole. And it’s like, “What do we gotta do here? “Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so, like, the, I think giving up hops, you have to have it. I don’t know how else you would do it. Yeah. But there, then there’s a flip side to that. We had Conrad Schindler, who’s, uh, a buddy of mine that played many tours and f- forever with, and then he played- Mm-hmm. the PGA Tour for- Yeah. I don’t know, 6 years maybe? Mm-hmm. And he just recently left. But he had to give Sam and I, um, 2 shots in 9 holes. Mm-hmm. ‘Cause he’s a plus five and we’re plus threes or whatever it was. Mm-hmm. And so it’s like, man, that’s tough too. Mm-hmm. You gottaYeah. Like we used to play for a living. Yeah. And it’s only 9 holes. Yeah. You know? And so if we go shoot one under, he’s gotta shoot 4 under to beat us. Yeah. That’s, that’s, that’s tough. It is tough, right? And so, like, I don’t know, like, I, I don’t know. I think about that all the time, like handicapped base, and ’cause I love the competition part of it, and making it fair for everybody, and- Right. and also not just stepping on people ’cause you can, right? Like- Yeah. I can see from their perspective, I wouldn’t be fun either. Uh, there needs to be some type of like, percentage of a stroke or something like that, because someone can’t have an 18 handicap and expect to play really poorly and still win. Yeah. You know? I wish they would do more half strokes. Half strokes. Yeah. Yeah. So if the, if I tie the guy- Yeah. i- he beats me. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. Um, but if I beat him, if I make a birdie and he makes a par on an easy hole, it just makes it tough, ’cause then when, when a guy’s gotta make a par, I have to make an eagle to win, a birdie to tie. Yeah. I, I don’t know. It’s tough. I’d rather give up half the strokes on every hole- Yeah. than, uh, 9 full strokes, I think. Yep. And, you know, so that way it’s like every time you tie, you beat me. Yeah. Eh, you know, I don’t know. I, I wish they would do that more, but I never see that in 4 minutes. I played in a tournament the other day, and I, I lit- it was literally me against this other guy. And I gave up 2 strokes on every hole except for two, and I gave up one stroke on those holes. And I was like going, “I don’t even-” Good luck. “I don’t even know, I don’t even know where you go from this. “You know what I mean? It’s like it, the math is just out of control when it comes to that kind of stuff. When you’re giving people 2 shots, they just have to hit one good shot- One good one. and they’re in like a bogey. Yeah. It’s like, “Okay, nice birdie. “Yeah, exactly. That’s cool. So anyways, so you got into the competition side of it. As you’ve gone into school, like you played through high school. You were pretty good. You said you were ranked really highly, and you’re like, “I’m, I’m gonna go ahead and push this. “Now, you said cocky, started to take over, you know? Yeah, I mean, I was, um, I, I say cocky just ’cause I think that I have, uh, I probably have crossed that line before, and I’ve learned lessons. Yeah. Um, but I, I don’t think I, we went too far. Yeah. I didn’t get toca- too carried away. Okay. But I, I’ve always been a pretty confident person. Yeah. And so, yeah, went into, uh, high school, I was all state. Um, I won an AJGA before, which was- Mm-hmm. a big win. Yep, mm-hmm. Got my name out there on the radar. Yep. Uh, won our state amateur, junior amateur in Oklahoma. Um, the, I’d say Kevin Tway was probably the best player in our state, and then, uh, there was a handful of us that were right behind him. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, um, I, you know, I was pr- I was proud of my high school career and a- amateur career then. Yeah. Junior golf. Yeah. I didn’t play nationally, uh- Mm-hmm. as much as some of these kids. Yeah. And, um, that’s just tough. It’s expensive. Mm-hmm. You know? And had, uh, uh, and coming from Oklahoma versus I think living in Florida or Californ- I don’t know. For whatever reason, I saw so many more kids from Californias and Floridas- Yeah. uh, or even Texas, that were playing in those national events. Yeah. And the, and the Oklahomans, I don’t feel like that we, um, were really, I guess, put in a position quite as much. Mm-hmm. And so I saw a lot of underrated golf come out of Oklahoma- Yeah. um, that peaked in college or, or in professional golf- Mm-hmm. who were under recruited. Yeah. ‘Cause we didn’t play in those, those, you know, big events. And there’s several on the PGA Tour now- Yeah. that I think were under recruited. Yeah. I’ll honestly, like when I said earlier about the windYou know, playing in Oklahoma, having to hit it high one way and low the other. You’re, you’re, you play in Perkett, in the, uh, let’s say you play in Phoenix, right? Yeah. You know, like, the fairways are large, you know, the, the grass is in really great shape. You know, it’s, you’re dealing with heat, but that’s about it, you know? You play in Oklahoma, you got wind in your face and it’s significant and you got wind with you and you gotta learn how to control those, you gotta hit a high- Oh, sure. and you gotta hit a low and, and most everybody else, when the conditions aren’t as strong as what they are in Oklahoma, they don’t have to deal with that every day, so it, it is a bonus for you guys- Right. to have to go through that struggle. You know, obviously you’re not gonna have the courses that they have. Yeah. But on the other side, you are dealing with something that they’re not, which puts another thing in your bag. I agree completely. I think you see so many good players out of Oklahoma and Texas. Mm-hmm. Because they learn how to play in, 1, different kinds of grass. Mm-hmm. You know, people don’t think about it but if you’re from North Texas up to the Oklahoma/Kansas border- Mm-hmm. you would go play Bermuda greens. Mm-hmm. You could play Bermuda greens on Tuesday- Yeah. and bent greens on Wednesday. Yep. Right? And back and forth and back and forth. Yeah. And then you’ve got also a different kind of rough. I think being able to chip and play out of Bermuda here, especially dormant Bermuda- Mm-hmm. really helps. And then the conditions, certainly. Mm-hmm. I mean, you can play in every season of weather- Mm-hmm. in one day in Oklahoma and I, uh, I know that’s like a, a joke but it’s true. Yeah, it’s true. Yeah. Uh-huh. And so I think that’s why you see so many good player– I mean, Scheffler’s number one in the world from Dallas, right? Uh, Spieth, and then all, all these Oklahoma players. I mean, look at Taylor Gooch and even guys that aren’t from Oklahoma but they played college golf in Oklahoma. Yeah. Your Ricky Fowlers, uh, Rhian Gibson who played at Oklahoma, uh, Christian, uh, Josh Creel, um, you got so many players that played in college golf- Mm-hmm. in Oklahoma. Yeah. That I think that they, they just learned how to get in the hole. Mm-hmm. No matter what the conditions are. Yeah. Yeah. They’re scrappers. For sure. Yeah. I mean, Max McGreavy’s a great player out of Oklahoma. Yeah. Uh, uh, Gauder up just w- won, uh, twice this year, I think? Mm-hmm. Or something like that. Yeah. He’s a lot younger but, um, there’s so many good players coming out of Oklahoma. Yeah. What do they say? Up and down out of a trash can? Yeah. You know, there’s a lot of that, you know, around those places. There is. ‘Cause the wind is blowing you around and you gotta, you gotta figure out how to, how to be nifty. Yeah. You know, around, around the greens and stuff, so. Yeah. There is. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Um, so you went to college. Mm-hmm. What was college life like? How, how did thatDid you succeed? Did you win any tournaments? Uh, what are we talking about this– just in sports? We’re talking about golf, yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, ’cause it’sIt’s school, no? Took me 6 or 7 years to graduate- Mm-hmm. so I don’t know what success looks like there. But I got a degree. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I went, um-to Oklahoma City University, um, I played good. Uh, I, I wasn’t our best player, uh, but I was a very steady player. Mm-hmm. Um, I played top 5, uh, the majority of my career and then was a, uh, honorable mention All-American one year and then, uh, All-American and national all-tournament team my senior year. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, yeah, all, I think it’s all-conference, all-tournament and All, All-American my senior year, so. Mm-hmm. I was happy with how that ended. Mm-hmm. We had some great teams, uh, uh, we’re NAIA. Mm-hmm. So we weren’t D1 like OU and OSU. Yeah. Uh, but I would put us, uh, our teams and our alumni up with, with most programs, for sure. Mm-hmm. I had a great coach, Kyle Blazer. Um, that was, uh, I wanna say he’s one of the youngest Hall of Famers ever? Mm-hmm. In golf. Mm-hmm. Especially Golf, Golf Coaches Association of America, um, and he was great to play for. We had a bunch of international guys- Mm-hmm. or transfers. Mm-hmm. You know, I had teammates that transferred from Texas Tech, from OU, um, you know, a lot of guys that, that started D1- Mm-hmm. transferred to come play small ball. Mm-hmm. And, uh, yeah, I, I, I had a great career, great time, I loved college, I partied a lot, um-but I, I, I loved it. You got everything out of it. I did, I did, uh, they, they say, what, you gotta, you can only be great at 2 things? Yeah. And I chose social and golf. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What’s the movie? Uh, Dazed and Confused, um, “the older I get-” “they stay the same. “And you’re like 27, 28 years old, still in college and enjoying yourself. It wasI didn’t go to my grad- my own graduation ’cause I was like, “There’s freshmen-” “what I thought were freshmen are graduating. “Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And I, I was a little bit like Van Wilder there for a minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Uh, well, that’s cool. So, uh, coming out of high school, before you got into that college, were you recruited? And if you were recruited higher or weren’t, was it due to grades? Is that why you didn’t get to where you wanted to go or what? What was the, what was the holdba- ‘Cause you said D1? Yeah. Right? And most people judge success based upon the grade levels that they go through. And you and I both know that that’s not necessarily how it goes. But there’s always something else in there. Um, my grades were okay in, in high school. I think it was, like, a 3. – Mm-hmm. something. Mm-hmm. 3. 1 or so. Um, so it wasn’t really the grades. I was committed to Kansas State, actually. Uh, that was who I committed to going into my senior year. Yep. Who I was gonna play for. There was a guy named Robert Streb, who’s a friend of mine, um, that was a couple years older. And he was already on the team there. Um, so their, their coach recruited me. And then he recruited another kid at some po- point. It was actually another guy that I’d played against and, and r- really liked the kid. Mm-hmm. Um, but he, uh, had to split our scholarships. And so I choo- chose to go p- play for full tuition, uh- Yeah. elsewhere. Yeah, yeah. And so yeah. I, uh- That’s cool. Yup. So I was recruited, um, by w- you know, wherever I was recruited by and where I ended up playing are 2 different things. Yeah, yeah. So- Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. There’s always something- Yeah. in the mix because, you know, in the shuffle, there’s a lot of things that go into it, you know, from- Right. from coaching to grades to- There is. There’s a lot. finance to, to everything, right? Yeah. So I actually went to n- a school, Northeastern State in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. I had a few high school teammates there, couple other guys that I knew from, uh, growing up- Mm-hmm. were on the team there. Mm-hmm. And I kind of just fell in love with th- the team there. Uh-huh. And so I went and signed there, but I didn’t make it very long. Yeah. I, I quit. The- Yeah. Uh, transferred out next year. Okay. To Oklahoma City University. Actually, to OU and then Oklahoma City University. Okay. So that ends upYou’re, you’re done with, with college and you’re thinking, “I’m taking this to the next level? “Are you thinking like, “I’m going to hustle people on the, on the course? “Like, what’s, what’s the next step? What’s the- I knew I was gonna play pro golf probably, um, entering my, I’d say junior year of college. I, I, I w- myIt was my dream my whole life. Mm-hmm. But I knew that I could compete in that back half of college golf. Mm-hmm. Um, knowing that, okay, here I was. I won at the junior level, um, and high school level. Mm-hmm. And then, and made it to, you know, kind of top of my class, I guess, if you will. And then here I was starting to come into my own in college- Mm-hmm. and at the amateur level. Mm-hmm. And I was like, uh, “If I can be, you know, top 5 or 10 in, in, in the country at this level-” Mm-hmm. ” then surely I can, you know, translate that into money at some point. “Yeah. And so, yeah, I, I knew that right away. And then, um, I had turned pro right after my, uh, eligibility ran out. Okay. Uh, with, with my co-captain teammate actually. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, we went to, to our first tournament in Arkansas, like, I think a week or 2 after nationals. Mm-hmm. So w- we couldn’t wait any longer. Mm-hmm. What is the definition of going pro, man? ‘Cause I mean,There is aIf money comesIf you make money, you’re pro. For sure. Right? So there’s that definition. And there’s the definition of, “I’ve made the Korn Ferry,” or, “I’ve made the PGA,” orLike, what level did we start to work up to? Like, you immediately jumped out and you’re like what? Anybody can go pro- Sure. pretty much. Yeah. I mean, uh, ’cause golf does have some loose terminology there. Correct. And so, um, I would say, you know, betw- so take that or leave it however you, you want to. Mm-hmm. Um, but the thing is, going into the professional ranks, earning some sort of status- Yep. uh, is, is your first step and then getting out there. Mm-hmm. And so, um, I never played on the big show, on the PGA Tour. Yeah. Highest I ever played was PGA Tour Canada. Okay. Um, and so, uh- Still very cool. Yeah. It’s, it’s better than nothing. But yeah. I n- I- That’s still very cool. I, I did well enough to continue after it for 7 years. Mm-hmm. But I did poorly enough that nobody knows who I am. So , uh, and then, yeah. So I, I don’t regret it all. It was great. And it led me to my business, and so that’s 1 Mm-hmm. one part. I can go back in time and play over shots, over tournaments and go, “W- wish I could’ve done this or that. “Do you do that? Um, I have before. There’s a couple. But, uh, that get to me a little bit. Mm-hmm. Still to today? A little bit. Yeah. Okay. And I wish I would’ve had a surgery about 5 years before I had it. Uh-huh. ‘Cause I, I was really coming into my own, uh, I think in my 6th or 7th year. Mm-hmm. I was just playing very consistent. Mm-hmm. NotAnd I wasn’t a world beater- Yeah. but I was, uh, I was gonna get in the hole, you know? Yeah. Um, and I was playing very, very steady. Mm-hmm. And soAnd my short game was really good at that point. Yeah. But I was very hurt. Mm-hmm. And so that was kind of, uh, aI look back on that. But honestly, I think, you know, I’m, I’m a man of God and I think that God sent me a message. Mm-hmm. That, uh, my, my purpose in golf, in this industry, it needs to come in another way. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I don’t regret anything on that. I think I- Yeah. I think I departed the game the way I was supposed to and, uh, when I was supposed to. Mm-hmm. I played 7 years, that was respectable enough, and I played in so many places. Yeah. I moved to California, which is where, where we started Surf & Turf. Yeah. Uh, met networks of friends out there. I went and, you know, tried to play in world tours, Canada. I went down to Latin America, to, to South Africa. Uh, and so I met people in all walks of life- Mm-hmm. you know, off the course and on the course. Yeah. And so I think that I played long enough to really earn a respect in the industry. Mm-hmm. Um, but then I played short enough and, and, uh, I exited the game f- for a reason that- Mm-hmm. allows me to probably actually have a better, bigger purpose- Yeah. in golf than I would have had as a player ever. Yeah. You know, I watch buddies of mine that are still on tour. Okay. And, uh, and hanging it up in their 40s now or whatever. Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, I, I think, “Well, they made it to me. “And then, you know, now they’re, they’re now entering the working world. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, “I, I, I thought that was making it,” you know? Yeah. Or whatever. And so I kind ofI d- I don’t know what I was chasing when I look back exactly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, you know, I think Scheffler had a great speech this year. Um, uh, I forget when it, when it was, but it was before or after one of the majors. Mm-hmm. And it was like, he’s won all these tournaments and he’s like, “It doesn’t change who I am,” you know? Mm-hmm. Or whatever. I thought it was, I thought it was pretty eye-opening to hear that. Mm-hmm. And so yeah, I, I think it segued perfectly in my life. I think God had a plan that IWhen I got hurt. Mm-hmm. It was kind of ironic ’cause we, weI get hurt in 2017. I’ve been hurt since 2012, um, but I had my surgery in the end of ’17. Mm-hmm. And then I get healthy again come summer of ’18. And, but during that 7, 8, 9 months or whatever, I learned how much time was in the day when you’re not playing golf all day. Right? And so, like, you know, when my f- my co-founders and I, you knowreally grew the business a lot- Yeah. in 2017 and 2018. Yeah. And that’s when it went from, like, this side hobby club thing- Yeah. to an apparel company. Mm-hmm. And then as soon as I get back healthy, I go play 2 or 3 tournaments again. Mm-hmm. And I’m back on the road or whatever. Mm-hmm. And the business is going down a little bit. Mm-hmm. And then I wreck a scooter and shatter my left wrist. Ugh. And, uh, I thank God it was His way of being like, “Stop the golf. “I told you already. I told you. “Stop the golf shit. “Yeah. You know? Yeah. “You got something going here. “Yeah. So I look back on that and I’m like, “I think that that was meant to be. “Okay. So- Well, the reasonAnd I, and I hate to have dug into it for so long. IYou know, and, and sometimes people are like, “That’s a littleStill a little raw for me,” you know? No. But I, I really appreciate you kind of digging into that and giving us kind of insight as to how far you took this so we can understand, like, the type of movement or jump you had to go to the other side and the type of pain that could potentially come with that, right? Yeah. Um, but for you to say, “I was totally fulfilled with what I did there and I’ve now taken that same energy and I’ve put it into something else. “Right. Right? So you said, when I’m done, what was the idea b- behindThis, this company you, you started up, Surf and Turf. Mm-hmm. Like, what was the, the real nugget or the seed idea that came behind that? Well, so actually, I can’t take full credit here. So I’ve got some founders out in California. Some buddies, uh, of mine. They started what was called the Surf and Turf Club. Mm-hmm. And so what we are and we still, we still have the club. Mm-hmm. And so what it is, is it’s a social club that would bring in, um, members to our club and then we would host events or go pair up with other clubs with an actual course. Mm-hmm. We don’t have a course. Yeah. So we’reYou know, we’re a country club without a, without a property e- essentially. Yeah. And so we would go pair up, we would use our connections to, uh, put like-minded people together, especially in SoCal. You had so many young professionals, uh, going out there for work or, or whatever reason brought them there from- Mm-hmm. all over the country. Yeah. Well, they can’t afford $50,000 initiation- Yeah. and $700 a month or whatever- Mm-hmm. you know, on, on, uh- Nice courses. salary that they just moved out there for. Yeah. And so we wanted to bring those people in and then introduce them to different courses, ’cause we could probably use our connections to get on about any course once. Mm-hmm. Right? And if weSo if there’s 20 courses, we could host 20 events. And that was the original plan. Yeah. to host about, uh, you know, a few events, uh, a month, or one event a month, or something like that- Mm-hmm. for our members. Mm-hmm. Well, the- what happened was IAnd I joined the club, and then my co-founders, they actually asked me to come on, uh, you know, and form the LLC and make it actual business. Mm-hmm. So it was really just an idea. Yeah. And soAnd I- and I did. And so, um, we set out and then where it got interesting was we would give a hat and a T-shirt to all of our members, or the people that would compete in our events- Mm-hmm. or, or whatever. And, and some of it was, was not just competitive events. We did some charity stuff, some social things around golf, you know. Mm-hmm. But like, uh, a little par 3 night course, or whatever it was. Yeah. Well, they would ask, “Hey, my brother-in-law wants one of those,” or, “I want one of those,” whatever. It’s like, “I don’t know if you can have one. You’re not a member -” Yeah. ” of our club. “Yeah. And, um, you know, as weird as it is to say, but true, if enough people ask you, “Hey, can I give you some money? “Yeah. You’re gonna find a way to make that, uh- Work it out. Yeah. And so it was like it, uh, the n- the second tipping point there, we went from that club, and then, uh, I actually brought the idea to my founders. Mm-hmm. Um, and said, “What if we made this an apparel company? “Mm-hmm. And so we have Surf & Turf Golf is the overarching entity. Mm-hmm. And then you have the Surf & Turf Club is over here. Yep. And you have Course to Coast Apparel over here. Mm-hmm. And then the community kind of rests down here. And so, um, it was that moment when we became an LLC of an actual apparel company- Mm-hmm. that has a club. Mm-hmm. And so it was a little different movement. Okay. And so from then, um, we started to grow organically. We launched our website, we started putting things on there. We had a little inventory. And then we got in aWe got very fortunate and were very blessed that we had such connections in the golf industry. Right. And so some premier clubs, uh, had professionals that were working there that used to play golf with us. Mm-hmm. Or whatThey’re our buddies, right? Mm-hmm. And they’d be like, “We’ll do 36 pieces, 48 pieces, let’s put it in there- Yeah. ” put our logo right here, whatever. “And, uh, and it kinda took off. Yeah. We got, you know, one account, then 5, then 20- Yeah. then 50. You know, and before you know it, I think in the start of 2019, we had about 100, uh, uhI’m sorry,Toward the end of 18, we had about 100 accounts. Mm-hmm. And then I sponsored the North Texas PGA Section Championship. Okay. I maxed out our credit card, and, uh, went and sponsored this thing, I think it was $4,000. Uh-huh. Which was a lot to us. Yeah. We had nothing. Yeah. And, uh, w- I went and I made this little, almost just like a check yes or no type deal. And it was like a little card, and it was like, “You want the small pack, the middle pack, or like, you know, the whole, the who- whole shebang? “Uh-huh. And it was like, I don’t remember, 18 units, 36 units, or 72, which was like hats and tees. Yeah. And I didn’t really give them an option to say no. I was just like, “I’m sponsoring. What do you want for your shop? “And at least everybody picked box A. Uh-huh. They’re like, “I could buy 12 or 18 hats from this kid. “Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, whatever. Uh-huh. And so we wrote 50Uh, let me, let me think here. It was 53No, 40What was it? 53 orders. Mm-hmm. 54 orders for about $43,000- Look at that. in about an hour. That’s amazing. Yeah. I love the fact that you said, “I didn’t even give them a chance to say no. “”There’s no box for that. “Steak or chicken? Which one do you want? Steak or chicken? You’re eating them. Or Surf and Turf. We know you’re hungry. It’s steak or lobster. Which one do you want? ErrrOr you want the whole thing? Yeah. And so- We’re flying this bad boy in there. I- I think IIt just kind ofI set the bar so low, there was, there was no risk. Yeah. And I think that what really helped was there was a m- little bit of a buzz of word of mouth, because we were this new company and, like, so we have Srixon, Bushnell, uh, Surf and Turf and Titleist, or wha- whatever it was, right? Uh-huh. A club car or something. Yeah. And it’s like, multimillion dollar company- Yeah, yeah. multimillion dollar company. $4,000 company. We just, we just maxed out our $4,000-33% APR credit card. Ah, that’s amazing. With 1,100 bucks in cash baby, you know, between the 4 of us. You know, and likeI remember at 1 point, theI- I remember at 1 point I had to, uh, Venmo myself, like, $42 and I sent Jordan, who was my co-founder, like, 54 for something. Yeah. And it was like, “That’s all our money. “Or whatever. I’ll never forget that. And, uhBecause I needed some money, you know- Yeah. or whatever. And so, I- I think there was something to be said when we sponsored that, and we had by far the best display up there. Yeah. I brought like everything, right? Yeah. Where we’d like, I put on a show- Yeah. where the other guy is just like sitting there, he’s like, “Grab your balls. “Some business cards, yeah. You know? Yeah. And, uh, and so, yeah, we went all out, and I- at that moment I have to thank the North Texas PGA, uh, Ryan Kosik and m- uh, uh, Mark Harrison and Austin Clinghagen- Mm-hmm. were kind of the original people there. And, uh, there, there was other names too. I shouldn’t even say names ’cause I’m gonna leave somebody out. Yeah. But I have to thank them for allowing us to be respected like that. Mm-hmm. And sponsor that event when we were so small. Mm-hmm. And so the second we wrote those orders, and I remember I had my sister there helping and then M- Michael Martinson, uh, who’s a founder and owner, m- minority owner of the company there helping me. I had their orders in their inboxes by the time they finished their 18 holes. Yeah. ‘Cause they only have like 5 minutes to go through. Yeah. Uh-huh. They’re checking in, then they’re gonna go to- go to the range, or putt- Yeah. or whatever warm up. And so, uh, I, I have to thank the NORTEX PGA for respecting us, what we were doing, you know. Mm-hmm. Let us bring our lemonade stand, you know-into the mall, if you will. And so- So, what’d you use? You had QuickBooks and you just sent them an invoice or what’d you do? Yeah. So, well, I put theWell, first of all, I wrote all these orders and I’d say the average order was probably about 24 pieces maybe. Mm-hmm. But you know, 24 times 54, you’re looking at likeand- Mm-hmm. I started looking at it and I’m like, “We only have 9 of that SKU. “Mm-hmm. And I’ve sold 48 of it. Uh-huh. You know, or whatever. And you’re going down the list and you’re like, “I’ve sold a hundred of this. We only have like 45 of them. “Yeah. So, now it’s like, now I gotta go- Source. And so, I had to go ask my parents for money. Mm-hmm. So, I was like, “I need to go, uh, f- fulfill these orders. “Yeah. And so, went and bought a bunch of inventory, whatever, and then, uh, over the next 3 months, uh, I got Cody Masa, um, and Justin Bates and, and Michael Martson help me move the business from California to, uh, Fort Worth, I guess. Okay. You- we’re in, technically, in Euless. Okay. And I got really lucky. My aunt, uh, and cousin own a, uh, um, fuel dis- distribution company there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so, they let us sublease out part of their building. That’s nice. And soAnd, and at a very affordable, you know, friends and family rate. Family friendly bill . Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so, I got lucky in so many ways. Yeah. I’m so blessed. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, so that, during that time, um, I was like, “Well, we have an office now. “Mm-hmm. “We have this inventory. I gotta fulfill all these orders. “Because I think most of them were gonna be for spring. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, and I took the orders in like September, October- Mm-hmm. whatever it was. And so, I went and I was like, “I need an employee now. “Mm-hmm. Like, I, I need one employee. Who do I get? And so, I was like, “Who can, like, org- get me organized? “Because I’m not that type, right? Uh-huh. A total entrepreneur and not a, uh, that organized. I’m, I’m process minded, but, but I don’t, I don’t do it like other people would, right? Right. Mm-hmm. And so, I went to my ho- my apartment, uh, manager. Mm-hmm. And her name’s Emily Davis, she’s employee 1 Yeah. at Surf and Turf. And I said, “You know all those boxes that you’ve been, like, trying toyou’ve been asking about that we should get shipped in? “Uh-huh. And ye- she’s like, “Yeah. “And I was like, “Okay, well, I’m opening up an office and I’m, like, gonna take this seriously and go build this thing. “Mm-hmm. “I need employee and you’re really organized and you’re on top of it and you kind of know what I’m doing here just a little bit. “Mm-hmm. “And I trust you. Can y- you wanna come work for me? “And like, she’s like in the middle of her shift, like the people that work for her are like right there. And then she’s like, “Can we talk about this later? “And then, like, she texts me and we went- She’s side-eying the whole time. We go to have coffee and I tell her, and she had to take a huge pay cut. Uh-huh. And she came on board. That’s awesome. And she hired our next 2 employees within the next few months. Uh, she worked for about a year and a half for me until she got pregnant and then COVID started. Mm-hmm. And so, she had to leave, but we’re, she’s still a good friend of the brand. Mm-hmm. I, I asked her to come work for me. Like, it’s a running joke now. Yeah. I’m like, “Whenever you’re ready. “Yeah. You know? About once a month I ask her. Uh-huh. But, uh, but no, she was the perfect culture fit, um, and I think the perfect way to start. So, I’d encourage anybody starting a business, that first person you hire is critical. Critical. 100%. Yeah. So, you, uh, you went out and found this one person that, to take the role. You’re like, “I need you to, you know, kind of button me up over here,” or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. And so, what was it like? What was it like working, walking into your office the first time and seeing like-“Oh, I need a desk and I need chairs and I need a computer and I need blah, blah, blah. “? Luckily, it was all furnished. Like, that $43,000 goes pretty quick, doesn’t it? Yeah. It luckily was all furnished. Super awesome. Yeah. So, my aunt’s company had moved from this building to the other one. Uh-huh. So, there was like cubicles. We still have this chain of cubicles and I’ll have to show you a picture later, but it’s, we call it the snake. It kind of waves or whatever. Mm-hmm. You know, waves through the office. And now it’s like our assembly. We immediately made that our assembly line- Uh. on each side. So, you, you know, put the hats there, goes through, there’s boxes, we’ve got measuring tape on there. Uh-huh. You know, it’s like a little process center. Uh-huh. And so, all the orders get processed on one side of that. Mm-hmm. And then they wait and it’s called the holding cell. Mm-hmm. Like jail. Holding cell. And so, that’s where the other ordersSo, if you order something to be delivered in December right now- Mm-hmm. we’ll put it in the holding cell. Yeah. Until it’s ready- Yeah. and then we move it across and then it goes through the assembly line. Yeah. And so at the very beginning, we had 2 offices in the corner. And so Emily used this one and I kind of sat at the corner of the snake. Mm-hmm. And then we had the inventoryin the other room. Mm-hmm. And then she hired, uh, a girl, Ashley, who still works for me. Okay. Uh- Shout out, Ashley. fullfil- fulfillment. Yeah. Uh, um, kind of head of fulfillment, if you will. Mm-hmm. So she doesIf you’ve ever ordered anything from us, pretty good chance Ashley sent it to you. Okay. Yeah, and so she does all that. Um, and then, yeah, so walking in there was weird. We still don’t have a sign there or anything- Mm-hmm. because it’s, we don’t really want customers coming in. Yeah. We don’t really want people to know we’re in there. Uh-huh. Uh, because it’s really just our executive suites- Yeah. and, uh, and fulfillment center. Mm-hmm. And so, and inventory. And so we do have a showroom in the front. I’ll take in new employees or sales reps or customers- Mm-hmm. um, or we do private label for other brands now. Mm-hmm. And so I’ll bring in, you know, the entrepreneurs behind that. And so they can see the showroom, get all the custom designs, anything they can think of- Mm-hmm. show them swatches, whatever. Yeah. Um, and then it turns into more of a warehouse- Mm-hmm. on the back end. So yeah, so we’ve really grown. Now we occupy that whole office and we have no room to even, like, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a cluster in there. It’s full up. Yeah. It’s full up. It’s a cluster. How many, how many employees do you have now? So we have 5, uh, every day there’s 5 people that you could reach on behalf of our company- Yeah. um, that, that are, like, full time at the office. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then we have, um, 2 full time sales rep, well, um, contra- independent contractor reps. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then we’ve, uh, onboarded another 4 to 6, there’s 2 kind of in the mix, they don’t even know, um, they’re coming on yet really. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I want to make that to about 15 by the spring. Okay. So really expla- ex- exploding. Yeah. Uh-huh. And I’ve, and I’ve got, uh, a key position I’m bringing in, I g- I can’t get into the details too much because we’re going to do some pretty, uh, disruptive stuff- Yeah. uh, I think. And I don’t want to let so-and-so know who we’re replacing just yet. Yeah, well, no, we’re not replacing anybody- I’m adding a position- Yeah, yeah, yeah. a role, and so, um, yeah, and so I’m hopeful that she’s gonna come on. We, we actually- Yeah. had a big meeting yesterday, so. Sorry about that, Ashley, it’s, uh, it’s not you. Uh, well, that’s cool. So when you went fromUh, like, what is, what is the sales model? Do you go to, like, golf events now or trade shows? Like, like you had one hit. Yeah. You made 43 grand on it. Mm-hmm. Well, plus whatever comes out of that, right? Yeah. Um, what was the next step, right? Like, you said you had to borrow some money to do the, to go get the hats and everything else that you had done, but like, is that sourcing locally? Is that sourcing China, Mexico? Like, where are you, where are you at with that? Good, good question. Uh, we’ve sourcedAt some point, we’ve sourced almost everywhere, I feel like. Yeah. Uh, COVID was quite the disruptive time. Mm-hmm. And so we had to switch from Vietnam and Bangladesh to, and f- and some, some stuff out of the Philippines to China. Okay. And I didn’t like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and then with all the tariffs and everything that came on, we moved out of China, so we’re now we’re back in Bangladesh. Okay. Uh, we do use local decorating services. We do some in-house, we do embroidery in-house, with screen print, things like that. We’ll do in the, you know, we bring in the garment here, and then we’ll get it screen printed- Mm-hmm. uh, through a third party- Mm-hmm. contractor. Mm-hmm. And so we do that quite a bit. And then, um, as far as, uh, selling, we do regional trade shows, we do right now between 7, uh, well, six and eight, I guess, fall and spring. Yeah. We don’t always goWe may only go to, like, Omaha, Nebraska, one of the 2. But Central Texas, North Texas, South Texas, Oklahoma, uh, California, we’re going to go to both, right? Uh-huh. Um, and so it just kind of depends on how busy they are. Mm-hmm. But at these shows we’ll set up, you know, it’s a hotel room, so maybe the size of this. Mm-hmm. And we’ll set up just a full display, and it’s a, it’s a kind of an intimate, umSince COVID, this, our industry, and I think other industries have gone to this model, is you rent out these suites. Yeah. And we have one on one meetings. Could be 15 minutes, could be 2 hours. If you’re Polo Ralph Lauren, it’s a 2hour meeting. Yeah. For us, it’s more like 30 minutes. Mm-hmm. And it’s because they’re going to go over their custom stuff, uh, to their stock, whatever it is they needed- Mm-hmm. and then sometimes we’ll do design right there on the screen. Um, but yeah, so that’s how we do our selling, is at those regional, uh, trade shows- Mm-hmm. or buyer shows, what they’re called. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, about 10, only about 10%, this is a surprise to most people, we kind of started our brand, um, in an opposite fashion of, in my mind, the rest of the 2020, uh, you know, this, this millennial, uh, generation- Mm-hmm. of online viral brands. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-huh. Everybody’s 90% online-I feel like. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then they have a few stores that they sell in, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, brick and mortars are really- We are probably at this point, as we’ve expanded our wholesale, probably, in fact, I know it is, it’s under 10% online. Really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So w- you’re in country clubs? Nobody knows that. You’re in country clubs? Yes. We’re about 500. Okay. Yeah. Uh, what about things like Lids and-I, uh, I’ve not done- worked with Lids. Um, we had a offer from Academy, which I turned down. Mm-hmm. As well as Dick’s. Uh, we may circle back to that in the future. Mm-hmm. One thing my uncle taught me, he worked for Polo Ralph Lauren for,beat me down for this ’cause I’m gonna get it wrong. It was either 25 or 35 years. Mm-hmm. His last PGA show was my first. Okay. And so, um, he told me one time, he said, “If you want to sell to all of them, you have to turn down a lot of them. “Mm-hmm. And so he kind of taught me a m- method of, uh, trickle down. And so if you wanna get, you wanna get in the highest end country clubs you can find- Mm-hmm. and then it’ll trickle down or whatever. But as soon as you put it in Dick’s, they don’t want you anymore. They don’t want, yeah. And so I’ve had to play a tricky game there. And so now we’re at a stage where we have multiple, um, programs. And so one of our programs will enter the big box in 2026 finally. Mm-hmm. So. So when you say that you are inWell, congratulations on that, by the way. Thank you. That’s really cool. Um, when you say you’re in 500, um, clubhouses or, or- Mm-hmm. um, golf courses. Um, is it with your brand or are you white labeling their company? Good question. Or their golf course? Majority, uh, almost all of it is ours. Okay. Yeah. And so the, the, like the hats that I gave you, these are all custom here. But the hats that I gave you- Mm-hmm. uh, will be like the hat that I have on. Mm-hmm. And so that’ll be Surf and Turf from the front, and we’ll either add logo if, if, not all courses want their logo on the side. Yeah. Um, some will want it, some won’t. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, a lot of them are like we have these hometown collections that have really been killing it and- Mm-hmm. we do creative plays and we spec- specialize them for these certain markets. Yep. Whether it’s pro teams, uh, collegiate. You know, we have an SMU hat here. As an example. Yeah. Um, we, like we’ve already sold out of this hat Oklahoma City. Oh, nice. Okay. Uh, for the Thunder. Uh-huh. And so, um, we’re, we’re launching, you know, those will go in there. So an ideal pro shop, let’s use Belmar Golf Club in Norman for example. Mm-hmm. We’ll do full custom headwear- Mm-hmm. uh, for them. Mm-hmm. And then we’ll also bring in hometown stuff, which will be OU and OSU and Thunder. And then they’ll also bring in like a hat I have on and put Belmar here on the back or whatever. So they’re bringing in kind of to the end consumer- Mm-hmm. 3 shelves of product that are completely- Mm-hmm. They look different, but it’s all Surf and Turf. Well, first off, uh, I’m gonna tackle 2 things here. This SMU thing, the Paying Ponies. I’m stealing this before it’s all said and done, but you guys got to check this out. I love, I love the hats that have a little bit about history, a little bit about the if you know, you know- Yeah. you know, type things. And I love that this is clever enough that, uh, I’m gonna get some conversation based, based around wearing this hat, like. Yeah. So I’m, I’m, I’m pretty excited about that. So when he looks the other way, that one’s going in my back pocket. But, um, but the second part of that is, how do you address, um, colleges or professional teams when it comes to using their logo on something? Right? Or is it just like, “Hey, I’m using your stuff. “Do I gotta call ahead and say, “I’m gonna use this and whatever. What’s your, you know, markup? Or do I have to sign a contract with you? “Or like how does, how do you get into that? So with licensing, they’ve got certain brand guidelines and certain marks, registered marks. Mm-hmm. Their trademarks. We don’t infringe on any of those. Yeah. Um, we have an, uh, a IP lawyer that I kind of consult with pretty much weekly. Mm-hmm. Um, and so he’ll guide me on, you know, before we release any designs. This might, uh, you know, this one might be a better option than this, yada yada. Mm-hmm. But so far we’ve never ran into any issue. Mm-hmm. Um, I don’t think that we’re using their, uh, likeness, um, to, to a point where we’re using their logo, their marks. Mm-hmm. Uh, we are obviously getting creative. Mm-hmm. Uh, like so many others are. Yeah. But yeah, the, we usually have to bounce around that. We have to get creative. Mm-hmm. You know, um, Texas Tech, uh, does not own tortillas, you know? Right. And so that’s nothing to do with their marks. Yeah. But we’ll play with that, you know? And then SMU Mustangs that, you know, that’s if you know, you know. The, uh, for example, like the OKC one, right? Yeah. That is you guys’ mark? That- And their colors or like how is, how does, how do you get around that one? Our mark is on there. It’s not even exactly their colors. It’s very close. Okay. Um, and then th- they can’t own OK- OK- OKC. Okay. And we can’t put Thunder on there with OKC. Got it. You know? Okay. And so that’s kind of where, where there’s someI’m probably saying too much, but yeah. Tha- that’s kind of where we’re at. We were just kidding about all that stuff we just talked about. That’s not even, that’s not there. Um, okay. So, so there’s things that you can, you can toe the line on things- I think so. but you can’t, you can’t necessarily, like, step on what they actually have, right? Yes, exactly. Cool. All right. I love the, I love the if you know, you know stuff. Yeah. So I’m g- I’m gonna start, you know, digging through that. And I hope you guys do jump on that and, and get inside of these. But, um, when it comes to the style or the brand, who is the person that’s picking out what these things look like? Who is the, who’s the, who’s got their finger on the pulse of the culture? Great question. Uh, so I, I hired this last year, um, a girl named Kylie Rose, right outta college. Arguably, uh, probably the best person I could’ve hired, um, without a doubt. And she had actually asked several times before that, is that I d- either-didn’t have the budget or I was unsure what she was wanting to do. And so I would say I’ll g- I will hand it off to her as far as these completed looks go. Mm-hmm. Um, she’s the one that is gonna be in there playing with the ropes, uh, sending the specs into the factory that, you know, logos need to be X size or they need to be this Pantone or that Pantone. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, you know, a couple of these hats are different fabric. The- Mm-hmm. My hat is a different fabric than this one. Right. But to the eye, you wouldn’t know that. Right. And so she’s gotta go put the end piece together. Mm-hmm. She’s the architect when it comes to that. Mm-hmm. And then I would say myself would be the creative, um, vision or, uh, the ideation phase of it. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, where, like, Kylie I don’t think knew what the Pan Ponies was. Uh, uh, there was a few people, the younger generation doesn’t know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I, I had to explain it. Mm-hmm. You know, and then they’ll be like, “Oh, that’s, that’s pretty good. “You know? Mm-hmm. And so the creative inspiration, I w- I wi- I’ll have to say that I play a part in most of it. Mm-hmm. But we, we include the whole team. Yeah. Um, I l- I let every employee, uh, or sales rep or anybody design anything they want as long as we approve of it. Mm-hmm. And they can, they, and they get one free pass. You put a design out there, especially in sales- Yeah. if you can’t sell it- Yeah. then you better not be designing it, right? Yeah. And I will back it. Yeah. And so, but I like to do that. I like to include everybody. Mm-hmm. We’ll name it after the person, name it whatever they want. Mm-hmm. And so, eh, I’d say everybody’s included on some level. Okay. And we definitely have a, kind of a little, um, creative clan, if you will, that we’ll send out to, right? Okay. And I’ll pull it out of the woodworks. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll find old friends and neighbors and, uh, ex-girlfriends and boyfriends of staff or whatever- Mm-hmm. that went to so-and-so school- Yeah. and be like, “What do you think about this? “Yeah, yeah. Right? And, uh, we kinda get a little panel going- Mm-hmm. and see, see if people are gonna like it. Like a little case study. When you say it’s a panel to test these things, are you looking for, “I’m offended by this,” or are you looking for, “Yeah, that’s something I’d wear”? A little bit of both. Okay. Yeah. The Pan Ponies, I wasn’t sure. I, I loved it. Yeah. And like, I 0 I would wear that hat too. Oh, I’m wearing it. Y’all get ready. The Pan Ponies is out, baby. I, I, I l- I loved it. I think that, and I- Yeah. like, the plan on tortillas for Texas Tech, for example- Yeah. or like this Funky Town with Fort Worth. Uh-huh. I’m, I’m a TCU fan now after 11 years of living here. Yeah. But I’m a OU guy. Yeah. So I can’t wear anything with TCU on it- Right. but I can wear purple with Funky Town. Yeah. You know, and support the city that I live in. Yeah. Uh, and so things like that. We wanna just ask, yeah, “What do you think of the design? What would you change? “Mm-hmm. “Would you wear it? “Mm-hmm. “Would you buy it? “Yeah. Is pretty much the first question. Mm-hmm. You know? And then, uh, yeah. What, like, “Are we missing anything here? “Mm-hmm. “Is this stupid? “Right. You know? ‘Cause if we’re making it for a school that maybe we don’t have any in-office direct affiliation with- Mm-hmm. we could really miss the mark sometimes. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I think it helps to ha- have a panel. I know we did some stuff for Oregon and Oregon State. I, I did not know some of the things, like with, they had one that says FTD for Oregon State. And I’m like, “Well, what does that mean? “And it’s blank the Ducks. I love it. I never would’ve known that. I love it. E- if I saw that hat walk in, you know, to the store, whatever- Yeah. I would have no idea what it meant. Yeah. I would think it was a construction company. Yeah. Or whatever, you know? And so,And so, um, just like maybe Horns Down people may not know in Oregon. I don’t know. Or things like that. Yeah. And so, um, we have to ask people. We try to get some insights. Yeah. You know? ‘Cause some are over my head too, and I’m a sports enthusiast. Yeah. But like I want- I guess you’ve seen the song at Alabama they sing in the middle that has all the other teams that they’re taking shots at- Yeah. the entire time? That’s gold. It is. That is absolute gold. And Kylie’s- Everyone sings it. Kylie’s really good at going online, um, without using our lawyer or anything and looking up the marks, looking up the histories of the colleges, looking up things like that. Yeah. Um, doing her due diligence. Mm-hmm. And I think that that helps a lot. You know? Yeah. And I know like, uh, we learned, like, with Tennessee you can’t useuh, it’s something crazy. It’s like you can’t use X consecutive words from, uh, Rocky Top. So- Oh, really? Yeah. Huh. Y- yeah. So it’s like y- you can’t do any plays on that. Huh. It’s kinda boring, but yeah. Hmm. That was an example. That’s a good one. Yeah, so, so you got somebody, you’ll come up with a concept. You’ll throw it out to your IP person and say, “Check this over. Make sure I’m not stepping on any toes on this thing. “And- Yep. they run off and do their own research on it and say, “Yeah, you’re good to go,” or, “I don’t know, we might be towing a line on this one,” and you guys gamble on it or you make a decision? Or does it have to be 100% clear before you walk away from it? Uh, it’s never 100% clear. Yeah. Uh, I think there’s always gonna be arguments. Mm-hmm. And so, and we’re, we’re not trying to step on any toes. We’re not trying, we’reWe w- we wanna play by the rules, um- Yeah. we just wanna make cool, creative stuff. Yeah. And so, I think in a way, we’re, uh, we’re promoting these, uh, schools and programs and cultures, uh, positively. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so, uh, we’re, we don’t want to infringe on anything. Mm-hmm. But we do want their fans to have something different and cool. Yeah. And so, um, yeah. I mean, I, I think there’s a, there’s a mix ofA middle ground there- Yeah. uh, that can get crossed. But we’ve never had any issues and- Yeah. I hope that we don’t. The model’s beautiful, honestly, that, you know, for every, every brand that someone, umThere’s always a, someone who, who’s in charge of that brand to make sure you don’t touch my logo, don’t do this, and we have to look this way. Oh, yeah. And it goes through a, a panel of 45 people before it, they’re able to actually produce something, right? 100%. And so, they really would never be able to do something that’s about the culture of that, that group. Right? You guys have taken kind of like a, an outskirt approach to everything to say, “What are you guys really talking about when you go play cornhole or drinking beer and watching the game or whatever? “Exactly. “What are y’all really saying? ‘Cause I wanna take that mantra and hatify it or shirtify it. “Right? Exactly right. We like to be outside the box big time. Mm-hmm. Our brand from a get-go, from the get-go, I would say we’re inclusive by nature. Mm-hmm. But we wanna have something that’s kind of exclusively offered, right? Right. And so, you know, we were all pro- pro-golfers that started this brand. Yeah. And so, we’re tied into golf, but we’re, we’re trying to be different. Mm-hmm. That’s where like, Surf and Turf, we, we had to add the word golf to our name. Yeah. Just to let people know- Yeah. we are a golf brand, right? Yeah, exactly. We are, we have golf roots. Yeah. You know? And so, if Nike was originally track, look where they’ve gone now. Mm-hmm. And you could use Under Armour as, as an example. Mm-hmm. You could use Lululemon as an example. Mm-hmm. They, they all have roots in one area and they spread their wings other ways. Yeah. But our, ours began in golf and then it’s gonna go to these others, and we always wanna be disruptive and 0 and edgy. Yeah. You know, edgy but we wa- we wanna be classy. I want something that can be classy or can be professional. Mm-hmm. That you can wear it in performance. Yeah. You could wear it in a setting, um, that doesn’t scream like, you know, college ball cap, if you will. But, uh, so that by style, we always like to make sure it’s the highest quality you can get in performance. Mm-hmm. But we, we tow the line just a little bit, right? No, th- And so, that’s who we, who we are. I love that, honestly. It’s a thing- Wear T-shirts on a golf course- Yeah. until we get told we can’t wear it. Yeah. Yeah. No, I’m, I’m Jorts and cutoff sleeves at the right golf course, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I love those places. Like, let me walk in, play my music and, and, and do our deal and- I’m big on music and hoodies on the golf course. So good. It’s so good. Yeah. Um, at the same time like that, a lot of the things e- like, you started out as golf but as you’ve gone through, you started to grow this thing outside of that into other sports and, and football being a big push, right? Mm-hmm. I see there’s some basketball in there and stuff too but main, mainline sports, like, how do you take that same mantra and put it into golf? Because, you know, that would be great to have some like, uh, you know, maybe some slogans or some throwbacks- Yeah. that basically throw, you know, if you know, you know golf terms into it, you know? We have a few. We have one that, that’s kind of a coined term from my college days called Birdie Hits. Okay. And so, it’s kind of a knock on non-golfers. They’ll be like- Mm-hmm. “How many birdies did you hit today? “Yeah. That’s not, that’s not really a proper way to say it. Yeah. And so, we would always just kinda turn that into- Mm-hmm. “Well, how many birdie hits do we have today,” right? Yeah. And, uh, so we, we would, we’ll use that, we like to play things like cocktails, you know, or d- or different, um, yeah, frequency, frequent things you see on the golf course- Mm-hmm. right? And play with those kinda things. Yeah. Um, and yeah. So, we, we’ll bring that into g- into golf, for sure. Mm-hmm. We’ve got someIt depends, right? Um, University of Houston, we’re doing a little moreOr, or not Univer- I shouldn’t say University of Houston because it’s kinda for the Rockets and the Cougars. Mm-hmm. But that’s a basketball town. Yeah. Right? And so, we’re kinda playing on some basketball stuff- Mm-hmm. uh, more so in that town. Mm-hmm. And then same with Oklahoma City versus, um, you know, Norman. It’s gonna be more football based. Yeah. And it’s not even football necessarily, it’s just whatever the culture is. Yeah. But- I mean, you might, if you put something up that’s a bunch of trash cans, you might be able to get something that’s, uh-some, some banging on the trash cans or whatever, you might be able to get everybody but Houston to buy it, you know. Yeah, there you go. So we, we’ll, we’ll play around with different stuff. We sponsored Conference USA for 3 years. Yep. As a presenting sponsor. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that was, that, a lot of people were like, “What are you doing with that? “Yeah. Because you’re not, we, we’re giving gifts out to track and field, swimming, diving- Mm-hmm. tennis, golf, basketball, football, I mean, you name the sport, softball, baseball. Yeah. And, uh, I wanted to m- make a statement right there with our first, I guess, major level sponsorship or partnership that we’re more than golf. Yeah. You know, that’s our, kind of our secondary slogan is we’re more than golf, we’re a lifestyle. Mm-hmm. And so I think that every college athlete is going to go on to play golf or be around golf on some level at some point in life. Yep. And that’s going to bring them back full circle to their sport. Mm-hmm. Whether it’s through fundraising, through family or friends, or, or, um, or even, like, in their financial world, or their, their, their, uh, occupations. Mm-hmm. They’re going to get tied back to golf at some point. Mm-hmm. But their, their sport of, of preference is another one. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, I’ve, I’ve been a strong, I guess, advocate of making us not so narrow that we’re, we’re not your grandfather’s golf brand. Right. Um, it’s our roots, but I just think it’s connected and the community through golf is so tied, um, to the, to our game. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then ties all, all sports into it, unlike anything else. Right. You know, you and I are, we’re getting up there, our days of pickup basketball are- Donezo. few and far between. Donezo. And so- Yeah. Uh, but golf, we’ll be playing for 40 more years. 100%. Yeah. Yeah, I can’t wait for that. Like, for, for me, like, and, and even, you know, there’s some- something that goes too, like, there’s attitude when it comes to a hat you wear on the course or something, like you want to say something smarmy, you want to be kind of jackassery with your buddies or whatever, right? And so sandbagger or whatever, you know, you’re putting that on your hat and you, you throw that attitude towards people, you know? It’s like those are the fun moments, you know? Those are the time- Yeah. you really get to enjoy, right? And so I love this, even if it’s like whatever sport or whatever area you’re from or whatever, this like, you know, back pocket humor, this like, you know, you know, taking a little bit of slap at, at certain things, you know, or even if you know, you know, you know coin terms is like really cool to kind of expand on, you know? Right. And so, uh, I’m, I’m jonesing, I got to start digging through, you know, what you guys got to see what I can really start putting in my repertoire, but this is- Yeah, we got about 13 or 14 hometowns right now. Mm-hmm. I, I, I’d have to go count, but something like that, they’re all on the website. Mm-hmm, yeah. And we got more coming. Yeah. I know we’re releasing Texas Tech, but I say, I shouldn’t say Texas Tech, Lubbock and Waco. Yeah. Um, and Dallas today. Right. So yeah. Okay, very cool. Just kind of our coming out party. So what are you doing to really get this stuff out? Like how are people starting to find out about you? Are you guys doing social media? Are you doing like, uh, ads? Are you doing SEO? Like what are you doing to really put yourself out there? Well, we get improvement ads for sure. We don’t really do that much, we’ve been very organically grown. Mm-hmm. Um, we do social media, but we’re really just retargeting at the people that already follow us, our community. As far as getting out to new people, that’s where I’d say we’re different than the- Mm-hmm. um, the modern brand. Yeah. And I don’t know how that happened other than our network of golf- Yeah. getting our foot in that door. Mm-hmm. To where if we go sell to all of our clubs across the country- Mm-hmm. we now sell in I think 42 states- Mm-hmm. uh, 3 countries, uh, and Puerto Rico. Mm-hmm. Um, if you, whether you, that’s a territory so, uh, you know, it’s not a state, not a country, but, um, ifWhen we’re putting it, all of our products, sending it out to that many places- Mm-hmm. that is kind of our marketing in a way. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and that’s why I think our online sales are so low because people are going to buy it in person- Mm-hmm. in retail, in brick and mortar, which I’m a supporter of- Yeah. uh, versus the online. Yeah. Now we need to improve our online. Yeah. And that’s, that’s something that we’re going to do in ’26. Mm-hmm. But I would say honestly, it’s organic and word of mouth and then putting it out there in retail shops- Mm-hmm. in brick and mortar stores, uh, and then key partnerships. Yeah. You know, Taylor Gooch Foundation, uh, for example, is one in golf. They, they do our hats. Mm-hmm. Um, and then we do some large, um, different events. We’re doing, uh, Sergio Garcia and Chris Harrison’s- Mm-hmm. For Kids, uh, event next week in Austin. Mm-hmm. Um, Chris Harrison’s a great friend of, of the brand and his wife Lauren Zima. Mm-hmm. Uh, they used to be with Entertainment Tonight. They’re huge supporters of us. Mm-hmm. And so like right there, that’s going to get out, you know, to X audience that we- Yeah. we aren’t reaching. Yeah. And then we just hope that trickles down into, into our sales. Yeah. But we’re, we’re getting so many more sales that we don’t even know about. Mm-hmm. Good orIf that’s good or bad, I’m not sure. Yeah. Because we’re not acquiring their emails when they’re buying at store. Exactly right. We’re not putting, you know, so, but we’re selling it. So I, I think that that’s gonna come, but I think it’s going to trickle down to us later. Yeah. And so it, it’s, it’s kind of one of those deals, it’s like we’re, we’re not, we’re not perfect by any means, uh, and we’re really struggling online- Mm-hmm. I would say- Mm-hmm. comparatively to the modern brand- Yeah. but we’re really thriving, uh, uh, as far as our wholesale sales. Yeah. Well, that ought to really tell you that you really have something in general, like most people it’s kind of the other way around. It is. You know? Um, and there’s their, like, ins and outs and they don’t have a brand, they don’t have something that’s long term, they got something that spikes, and then they’re- Exactly. trying to find something else again. There’s nothing for people to tag onto, right? Yeah. You guys have built something despite-that on the other side of that. So, when that does come around and you guys do get that together, I mean, you guys are just a, a powder keg about to explode, so. I, I hope so. Yeah. That’s a, that’s a really cool, um, part of your story. I mean, honestly. Like, to have made it this far without is, pretty neat. It, it’s different. And it, it kind of happened on accident a little bit. Yeah. You’re sandbagging me a little bit over here. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s interesting, ’cause, uh, we don’t really market that well- Yeah. to be honest. Yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re marketed well, but we don’t do marketing very well- Right. if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Uh, ’cause we’re putting, we’re putting it out there. Mm-hmm. But we’re not putting it out there in a way that people can go catch it and go online. Right. But I think you’re right. I think that pretty soon those, those dots are gonna connect. Right. And it’ll come full circle. Right. And so I like where we’re at as far as from a growth standpoint. Mm-hmm. I know, you know, as far as just re- recurring revenue and, and working with these, uh, you know, some really elite golf courses- Mm-hmm. and golf shops. Yeah. Southern Hills just ordered, um, the other day- Mm-hmm. uh, in Tulsa, which is probably my favorite course in Oklahoma. Mm-hmm. And, um, I just think that that says a lot about our quality- Mm-hmm. we’re putting out there. Yeah. And, and I would much rather sell to these, uh, great establishments like that and partners- Mm-hmm. than online in, in the short term. Yeah. And then’Cause I think the long- online will come. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah. And once you got these guys that are brick and mortar for a long time, they’re your guys. Yeah. You know? They are. They’re your guys. They’re not quick flippers, they’re not, you know, people that are selling out of their house or, you know, that they’re gonna take the biggest buck. Yeah. And, you know, what? If they don’t have that overhead too, they’re not holding your dollar. Right. You know? So, they could undercut you and really screw up your sales pretty big time, you know? So, um, once you do have those established, it’s really cool that you do have, uh, that, you know, that foundation- Yeah. uh, of people, you know? I’d argue some of our accounts sell more direct to customer than we do. Mm-hmm. It’d be close. Mm-hmm. I mean, uh, definitely during seasons. Mm-hmm. Spurts. Mm-hmm. You know, some of these courses or s- shops, retailers selling thousands of, of, uh, hometowns or whatever in a, in a season. That’s way more than we would do of those SKUs. I love the term hometowns. I mean, honestly, like, that’s a, that’s a good way to coin it, you know? It’s likeBecause there is something to it. It’s not just, you’re not just getting around something. Mm-hmm. You’re really talking to, like, if you know, you knows of the people that live there, the hometowns- Exactly. the people that know here, this is, this is who we are, we’re talking to you. Yeah. You know? I mean, that’s your hometown edition, you know? That’s, that’s a, that’s a really cool, really cool way to t- to get people to, you know, come to you guys for the insights, you know? I, I appreciate that. Tha- that’s something we pride on, is building our community but also getting to know the communities that we work with. Yeah. And so that’s where we’re starting. These are those communities that have backed us since day one, so we’re trying to provide them some product that feel like we’re backing them in return. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Uh, like Arkansas, we put a Dixon Street sign on every, on the side of all their SKUs. That’s cool. Uh, just something little, you know? Everybody there is familiar. Uh-huh. But people outside the state, they don’t know what that is. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, just a little nod to it, you know? Yeah. It doesn’t have to be so, uh, so heavily mentioned or you don’t have to, to brand it with something or whatever, but just give a nod that this is you guys. Yeah. You know? And, and, and we see you and, and we’re trying to celebrate you as well, you know? Right, right. That’s cool. When you get into, uh, like you said, you got somebody that kind of picks out the styles and whatever, do you have a certain style that you like particularly, and are you influencing that based upon what you do because of what you see in the culture now? 100%. Okay. Um, the l- uh, isAm I using this right? The Lemon test, I guess? Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, I, I’m probably the voice of that. The first of anything, um, it needs to be something I would wear- Yeah. style-wise. Mm-hmm. Uh, I d- I feel like I haven’t gone wrong with that yet. Yeah. And then once we go into other demographics, whether it be women’s whatever, IThat’s where it goes back to, like, that panel- Mm-hmm. of people I trust. Whatever these people that we’re asking- Mm-hmm. I watch them year in, year out, be on trend. Yeah. And so if they don’t like it, then, umAnd w- we dig deep, family members, friends- Yeah. uh, employees, um, whatever it is, and then we go ask people that are trendsetters- Mm-hmm. “Well, what do you think about this? “first. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so it’ll go that way. But yeah, w- my s- my favorite style is a trucker hat. Yeah. But I’m bald now. And so I gotta be careful with those. I get some mean tan lines. Yeah. So, the, the perforated, uh, look is very popular right now. Uh, poly ripstop or elite performance. Yep. I think those are, like, right now essential in the market- Mm-hmm. if you want a top-selling product. Yeah. And then, you know, things like the rope and snapbacks are, are, are great. Mm-hmm. But we’ve got some innovative products that are gonna come out in 2026- Yeah. that I’m really excited about. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I’m not gonna discuss, you know, much further into that. Mm-hmm. But we’re gonna release some fabrics- Mm-hmm. some, um, appliques- Mm-hmm. that I don’t see anybody else doing. Mm-hmm. At least w- we’ll at least be the first or one of the first. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so that excites me too. We’re always trying to f- figure outWe just met with our factory last week. Yeah. Um, and to meet with them in person when they’re 0 across the world- Mm-hmm. is, is huge- Yeah. ’cause they’re supportive. They’re supporting us. And then, um, we’re putting our heads together. They’re showing us new capabilities- Mm-hmm. we’re showing them or asking them about new trends or new ideas- Mm-hmm. and they’re saying, giving us the yes or a no or a timeframe. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that’s probably one of the coolest things I get to do on my day-to-day- Yeah. is try to find trends and then bring it to life that matches our brand. What is the average cost of one of these hats? I cannot tell you that. R- on a sport- I don’t mean, I don’t mean-p- price. I mean retail. Retail. Oh, retail. 39, 35 or 39. Okay. We got a $35 hat here, $39 hat here. Yeah. And, um, the, uh, retailers will sell that when you add logo to it. Yeah. So, Southern Hills, for example, or Belmar in Norman, or, um, Rockwall Golf and Athletic Club over here- Yeah. they slap that logo on there- Mm-hmm. and all of a s- sudden that hat is worth $5 to $10 more. Okay. So, I, I’ve s- I’ve seen it high end, $49, to lowest end, 30, 35, or 39 depending on the SKU here. Okay. Yeah. Um, I’ve seen a lot of, uhSorry, wasn’t trying to get into your details there, but- No, you’re good. Um, I’ve seen a lot of hats that are coming out right now that people are really going for the most extreme material, like, the highest quality. And I, you know, I don’t know if you can tell from my accent, but I’m, I’m East Texas boy from nowhere, right? And so, like, I, I sit here and think about, like, hats you wear, they get sweaty, you toss ’em, you know, whatever. But it’s gotten to the point now where they’ve become such a part of culture now that they’re acceptable in business meetings, they’re acceptable a lot, at a lot of places. You can go into a fine dining place and wear a hat. Yeah. You know? Um, so guys are looking for these, like, super premium type materials toAnd I’ve seen blanks for $70 or $80, you know? 100 bucks for a blank. That, to me, is, like, wild, right? It is. It is wild. Because there’s stillYou know what goes into that to still make it something else. Yes. Right? Are you guys going that route of, like, the luxury hat at all? Have you looked into that? Yes and no. But I don’t ever want to be the most expensive hat on the wall. Mm-hmm. But I also don’t ever want to make a cheap product. Yeah. So, I needUh, we’re trying to sell to, uh, our own, if you will. Mm-hmm. And I, I don’t like when I see a Mellon hat for $100. Yeah. You know? I, I- Yeah. hate to say they’re, they’re the highest in hat- Yeah. in the game, and they, they’re proud of that. Yeah. I don’t want to do that. If we made a hat similar, we wouldUh, I just don’t think that that’s necessary to sell a commodity like that, um, t- for that much money. ‘Cause especially who we’re selling to. We’re selling it to, you know, I’d say, 16 to 45 year old is our main demographic usually. Mm-hmm. Yep. And so you’re, you’re going from somebody in college to young professional- Mm-hmm. to somebody maybe just starting a family or business or whatever. TheyW- you know, we want it to be nice, but I always wanna have an edge on, on pricing- Mm-hmm. over the highest end. So I wanna make the highest quality, but for a little bit more relatable price. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And so- Do you think that there is a, knockoff of yourself? You know, IAs I’ve seen a lot of people build brands- Others. out, right? Uh, the thing is, we always make, like, this really premium something, or we make something at a price point. Well, how do we keep ourselves relevant where people can’t undercut us? Right. Well, the first thing they’ll do is build a brand that knocks themselves off. Yeah. Right? So they build a, whatever, some other brand, some other, and call it something else, and it’s half the price or whatever. Do you think there’s a pri- a price point potentially for you guys to go, “Hey, this is a different brand specifically, and it is the most premium of premium,” so you don’t leave things on the table too? Like, are you saying, “This is our, this is our bullseye,” or do you say, “And this is where we’re staying? “Or do you guys take interest in understanding that there’s markets on either side? The, well, the, the amount of brands that do that is crazy. I know. Yeah. And you don’t even realize that brand X and brand Y are the same. I’ve built a bunch of ’em. I know, yeah. Um, and so- Yeah. yeah, so, th- there’s, um, w- we, um, I won’t say yes or no if we’re gonna do that, or when, or if we already have, or whatever. Mm-hmm. But, um, there’s definitely something there. I think that there’s a strategy there, I think it’s good business, and I think it’s a way that you can not water down your brand and then, um, still hit demographics and get- Yep. get it out there, and do it in a way- Just grab a market. yeah, exactly. You know? There’s dollars out there in a marketplace- Mm-hmm. it’s there, and you guys have the vehicle to get it there. Change it either way, and you guys- Right. You’re already there. You’ve already got the model. Yeah. You know? Exactly. Same for- And there’s so many brands that do that. Yeah. Not just in apparel. Mm-hmm. In cars, in-uh, you know, whatever. Yep. Accessories- Yep. watches- Yep. you name it. I can name a few and I’m not gonna. But yeah. Yeah, 100%. There’s a lot. It’s, it’s really a, it’s a game that a lot of people play, you know, and it’s smart. It really is smart to- Yes, good business. to think like, “I’m ins-” And they’re insulating themselves. They’re not really just like trying to knock somebody off or trying to, you know, undercut you and say, “I could just sell this cheaper somewhere else and, you know, be, be, you know, fake about it. “They’re protecting themselves, right? Because somebody else, regardless of whatever it is that you sell, whatever it is that you do, there’s someone that comes under that. “Oh, I can do that for cheaper. “Right. You know? What’s the old, uh, movie that has the, uh, there was something like the 12-minute abs or something, you know, that used to be? And then the guy comes in in the movie and he’s like, “I’m gonna make something,” he’s like, “I’m gonna make the 8minute abs,” you know? Exactly. And then the guy goes, “No, I’m gonna make the 6minute abs. “You guys go, “You can’t even do abs in 6 minutes,” you know what I mean? It’s just likeYeah, that’s exactly right though. But it’s just they’re trying to undercut to say like, “I can give you the same result for less,” when we all know it’s not possible- Oh. but at certain points, you can go in there and-give yourself a shadow of what the other one is, or a premium version of what the other one is- Right. to, to bookend it. And, and I, I think there’s a, with, wh- when starting any business, entrepreneurs out there, they need to decide what kind of value are you bringing. Are you gonna bring value to a market that’s, uh, at a lower cost or, you know, um, lower price, uh, I mean, or are you gonna bring a perceived value of prestige and quality that people are gonna pay more for and not even know why they’re paying more for it? Yeah. It’s just, you know, it has to do with per- perception. Yeah. And so, uh, I think any time anyone starting a business, you need to decide where, where are you bringing the value here? Mm-hmm. Right? Where is your value unique? Mm-hmm. And so, um, that’s a huge question that everybody has to ask and, and behind every brand, I think. Mm-hmm. That’s why you have to be careful with branding. Yeah. There’s certain stuff we won’t do. Mm-hmm. Because I think it’ll, it’ll waters our brand down. Mm-hmm. Or it’s like, no, we leave that to s- go shop with cust- you know, employ- or, um, brand X. Yeah. Whatever it is, whoever that is that day- Mm-hmm. um, if you want that. Yeah. We’re not gonna do that. Um, well, I appreciate you kinda jumping into a lot of that stuff right there. Yeah. But, uh, gonna ask you a few kinda category questions if that’s okay? Okay. Um, you, uh, what kind of music do you listen to? Country. Exclusive? Not exclusive. I listen to a little bit of everything. Like, I’ve been big on, uh- There’s some ni-Teddy Swims lately. Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know he’s go- got a country song or 2 out, but- Yeah. I really like him a lot. Uh-huh. Um, I like some rap. I know. I was gonna say there’s some ’90s rap in there. I can see it. Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. Uh, yeah, I, I mean, I, I like a little bit of everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody in particular in, in the old school rap? Who, who are we throwing in? OhSome Boys in the Hood? I see you throwing that down, rolling one down. Yeah, I mean, I c- I can get behind that. Um, let’s see. I like Geto Boys. Okay. All right, now we’re talking local. I love it. And then I go, I can go all- 6 Feet Deep. I can go all the way to Will Smith. I think that was their first album, you know? And then getting a little more modern, I, I’ve always liked 50 Cent. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Live Rich Die Tryin’. Let’s see, who else? Bone Thugs, I like them. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. I love that. Um, is there any hobbies you have out besides golf or this? Yeah, uh, uh, love to fish. Okay. I love watching sports. Um, I’ve, I’ve, been such a big fan of sports. Mm-hmm. So, like, one of my favorite things, actually probably my, my weekly de-stressor- Mm-hmm. at least once or twice a week, if it’s not an OU football game, is to go either with friends or by myself and go watch a game. And so like, I love this time of year, ’cause I’ve got, uh, the Thunder playing again. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then I’ve got, uh, college football and NFL football. Mm-hmm. So, I don’t necessarily catch every game. I, I, I’m pretty busy. Mm-hmm. But I’d say that is a hobby of mine that I gotta mention, is watching a good sporting event with- And you love to attend them. I love to attend them if possible, yeah. I go to every OU game that I can. Yeah. And then I’ll go to one or 2 Cowboys games a year. Mm-hmm. Uh, I’ll, I’ll even, you know, try to, try to attend, uh, you know, Stars games. Mm-hmm. I’m not a big Mavericks guy, with the Thunder. Come on, man. Come on. Come on, man. Uh, what you, did you go to the game the other day? They, they played each other- Uhlike a week ago. No, I watched it, but I- Okay. yeah, I didn’t go. No. Yeah. They won. But we got the Mavs number . I mean, you guys just won the championship and then, you know. Yeah. I think we might win it again, too. Well, we owned you guys for quite some time. You did. Then we traded our guy. What’d you think about that trade? You know, I’ve, I’ve done some artwork for, for Luka. I couldn’t believe it. Um, I’ve, uh, been involved with the Mavs for quite some time, you know, and they’ve done really great by me. I was, I was sad to seeI painted a giant Luka mural on, on my studio on my house, right? Really? Um- Oh, that’s heartbreaking. I was, I was, I was heartbroken, I was, uh, shocked, I was, um, uh, disappointed, uh, but at the same point it’s like, I’m always the guy that says, “This is my hometown. Uh, and I ride or die with my guys. “Yeah. You know? I, I’ll always love Luka. I think Luka’s great and, and what he’s done. Right. I wish it would be here, but if my guys are here, I’m riding with my guys. Yeah. Regardless. I’ll always be a Cowboys fan, I’ll always be a Mavericks fan, I’ll always be a Rangers fan and a Stars fan, period. Yeah. That’s it. I think you grow up in the town- I’m the same way. you grow up with, and that’s the, that’s the team you get delivered. Yeah. I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna see nobody that’s like, “Oh man, I’m a Dodgers fan, and then I’m a Cleveland fan, and then I’m a Boston fan, and then I’m a, you know, Yankees. “And then all of a sudden it jumps over and you’re like, “Oh, who won this year? “You know? It’s like, you, you ain’t for me. For sure. You know what I mean? I- As Cowboys fans, we gotta go through the heart. Brother. Brother, I got a 20-year-old and a 17-year-old, and they’ve never seen it win. Oh, yeah. I had to get ’em to watch, uh, uh, the, the Netflix series- Yeah. with, uh, um, Jerry the other day. Uh-huh. That’s a great one, by the way. It was great. And I just, I just told ’em, I said, “This is what it was like. “Yeah. You know? And he was like, “Man, I miss it. “Like, “How did, how did I miss this? “I said, “Well, you’ve seen the Rangers win. “Which I never thought would happen. Yeah. Right? But that was such a great, uh, walkthrough right there. The Stars have been awesome too. They’re close. How do you go to the championship 3 years in a row and then fire the guy? Like- I know. I’m blown away by that. I know. So, I mean, we, we got what we got, you know. But I- I think they’re gonna be good again this year. I love going to a Stars game. Yeah. Uh, I- Hockey games are fun. They’re great. They’re the most underrated- Yeah. sports experience. And the temp is amazing in there. There’s something about hockey on t- in person versus TV is way different than- Way different. football in person TV or basketball or whatever. Yep. I would actually rather watch football at home. Yeah, probably. Um, I love- Playoff hockey’s pretty cool though. Yep. Going to, going to, uh, going to a game to watch hockey is way better. Yeah. Um, an NBA game is way better, uh, at the game, depending on your seats. Um- Baseball’s definitely better in person. Baseball, just walking through the tunnel and seeing the grass and the field. And you walk out onto it and you’re likeI mean, I played base, that was my sport growing up. Like I, I played that for a long time and, um, I don’t know, the smell of the glove and everything is just, it’s so sewn into my, my DNA. But it’s funny ’cause I don’t watch that much- Yeah. baseball anymore, you know? Well that’s kinda, I don’t watch golf that much on TV anymore. Yeah. I’ll go, you know, I’ll go one day at the Nelson or Colonial, you know? Yep. Or with some, with some buddies or watch a friend or something, but- Yeah. I don’t watch, watch it that religiously. Yep. You know, my dad’s tuned in. He’s got- Yeah. He, he knows who won and, you know, every tour that weekend. Yeah. One of my, 1 I know where they’re playing. One of my buddies does the Waste Management Open, like owns it. Or runs it anyways. Um, and, uh, he’s invited me down there a few years in a row, and that’s a, that’s a, that’s an experience. I’ve never been. I, I’ve tried to qualify for it, but I’ve never, never been to it. Brother, let’s lock it up. That’s our, uh, our bucket list sponsorship. I got you. 16th hole. I got the guy. I’ll connect- For the Waste Management people. We’ll be there one day. I’ll connect you. That will be the surf and turf 16th stadium hole. I got you. ‘Cause we got a 16 on our logo. And so we will get that done at some point. Mike, I’ll be calling you in a short time. Um, but that’s really cool, like, I mean, to get into some of that stuff, you know, and just, you know, experience, you know, on, on location. Yeah. Sometimes it just doesn’t get any better than that, you know what I mean? So. Um, cars? You a car guy? Not really. No? No. And the, and if anybody, my people close to me, uh, are watching this, they’re gonna laugh at that, ’cause I am the opposite. Yeah, no. I drive things to the I drive them to the die. Uh-huh. My last, my last was a Tahoe, got it to 405,000 miles. Wow. And my, I got a Yukon out there, Denali. It’s already got, it’s my new 1it’s already got 180 or something. It’s my new one. Yeah. I mean, I drive those things till, till they’reI run them right into the ground. And so I, I, I’m always gonna have an SUV. Mm-hmm. I do like a, a good, nice big car. Mm-hmm. But I’m not a car guy. Yeah. You know? You, you’reI’m not gonna get turned on by, you know, uh, HEMIs and, uh- Yeah. V8s and whatever. Yeah. Or, you know. I, I don’t know, I don’t respect cars enough. I’m not the right person to talk to. That’s not you. No. Not ain’t it. Cornhole? Uh, I’m, uh, I’ll, I’m better than most. Okay. All right. Challenge accepted. Yeah. I’ll take that one. Yeah. Uh- I’ll, I’ll playThere’s, there’s something to be said, I think, about cornholes, a lot like putting, chipping. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll, I’llI’m not gonna say I’m the best I’ve ever met, but I don’t lose very often. Yep. You know what’s so funny? Like, uh, I’m kinda, I’m that. Um, and I’ll go to events and like, I don’t know, like barbecues and people’s things and whatever, and I’ll never lose the entire time. I’ll go the entire time and never lose. And then all of a sudden, you’ll walk up against like a pro person. Yeah. Like a pro, right? And, uh, this guy tells me, he goes, um, “How many, how many points you want? “And I looked at him and I said, “I played the entire day yesterday and I never lost. “Right. And he goes, “That’s not what I said. How many points you want? “He goes, “I’ll spot you 11. “I said, “You’ll spot me 11? We’re going to 21. “Yeah. And he goes, “Oh, you need more? “I was offended. Right. I never got above 19. Wow. He 4bagged it- It’s-every time. it’s kind of like pro golfers versus the scratch golfer. 4bagged it every time. Yeah. And I’m like, “Okay, I’m throwing 3 in and still losing, or throwing 2 in-” Right. ” and still losing. “You’re losing 3 points- You know? or whatever. Gosh. Every s- and it just like just bloody nose, bloody nose, bloody nose, bloody nose. And the fact that I got to 19, I felt pretty good about. When I started seeing what he was doing, I was like, “All right, I got a ways to go. “Mm-hmm. You know? There’s such a vast gap there, you know, in terms- Like playing pool with theBe careful. Yeah. ‘Cause there’s a s- there’s a tipping point there. Where you have a shark- Yeah. and you got a good player. Yeah. Or you see someone playing left-handed and they switch to playing right-handed- Yeah. when they turn it on. Uh-huh. You know? So yeah, whole nother deal. Well, I’ll tell you this, man, I’ve had a really good time. Absolutely. Um, you, uh, you got a really great story, man. I’m really proud of the journey you had, and, and just even your, your outlook on, you knowMost people c- be pretty jaded on, you know, shutting something off or having an injury or doing whatever, but you said, “My time’s my time. You know, I, I had it,” so. ‘Cause I can’t, I can’t change it. Yeah. I just got to own it, you know? And so, I, I, I was blessed either way, uh, to have all th- all the things that happened, good and bad. Mm-hmm. And it’s led me here. Y- you can’t change it, you just got to make the best of it. Yeah. Well, do you want to tell everybody, uh, where they can find you, and- Yeah. So it’s surfandturfgolf. com. Instagram is @surfandturfclub, ’cause of our original name. Um, go on there. We got our hometowns. Go look for your favorite team. DM us if we don’t have, uh, your, your hometown covered yet. Um, and yeah, DM us anyways and say, say hi if you watch this. Yeah, super cool. Yeah. Well, I tell you what, again, I appreciate it. And everybody, uh, I’m going to be, uh, playing with the Ponies over here in a, in a hustle. Yeah, baby. Oh. Here we go, playing with the Ponies. Uh, until next time, peace out. That’s the blueprint.